Talk:Priest Game

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Class change

Any idea what happens to your men/paraphernalia when you change from other classes to a priest?

Do you have to pay the paraphernalia off 1st? - I must admit I didn't pay attention to the gold count when I did it.. though I did set the men down as militia 1st.

Do priests gain honor/prestige and how? Hard to see how they can change to martyr otherwise

Men and paraphernalia do not carry over as a priest. Not sure how they disappear since it's been a while. But as to your third question, no. They can't gain honour or prestige (as far as I know). House Olik 04:43, 14 April 2007 (CEST)

Actually they do carry over. Scouts do at least since my priestess had some scouts for quite a while until I decided they weren't worth the expense. --Antonine 18:39, 16 November 2009 (UTC)

Game effects?

This article and the 'tom's own words' one both lack any discussion of religion as a game mechanic, even explicitly stating that "right now" it's mostly a roleplay tool.

However, I've watched priests cause lots of trouble by inciting the populace against a realm, helping trigger a rebellion. I've picked up an understanding that 'matching' religion (of a lord and the peasantry) is essential for maintaining high loyalty and morale, and that religion can play a key role in speeding / preventing takeovers.

All of these are fairly important game mechanics and deserve to be added. I'm not a priest, nor a region lord, so all my knowledge is secondhand and I'm not comfortable adding it, although if it goes a few months perhaps I'll give it a shot.

Since 'religion' redirects to this page, can someone who is more knowledgeable please try and add some of the game effects to the article? Westgate 03:07, 30 May 2007 (CEST)

I think a lot of this is intended. In general, Tom does not like us to duplicate information that is available in-game on the wiki. For example: Marshal formations. There is already a help page for it in the game. The priests know what they can do, and I would assume there is a help page for them about their abilities. (Maybe not, but I'm not a priest, so I don't know.) I would guess that some of it is also intended to be a bit of a mystery. Something for you to discover as you go along. As your skills get better, and you get larger temples to work with, you get better abilities. If some of that information is added here, it should probably only be discussed in the most general of terms. Some of it will doubtless change as game balance adjustments are made. If specific are entered on the wiki, they will just end up being incorrect. --Indirik 04:26, 30 May 2007 (CEST)

speaking of priests and marshals, any idea why priests can be marshals? (region lords i can understand)... my priest has the option to refuse to become region lord/marshal--Fodder 21:13, 30 May 2007 (CEST)

Or more to the point, can they use the marshal settings, even though they are not involved in the battle? -Chénier 22:27, 30 May 2007 (CEST)

Actually, none of that is what I'm referring to. I'm referring to religion's effects to a normal non-priest person. There is no 'religion' page available to read on what religion contributes, since it redirects here. I've seen with my own eyes events like trying to arrest a priest and getting mobbed by his believers, or someone preaching and raising sympathy for a realm to reduce the number of men required for doing a takeover. None of that is available in-game to a non-priest, but it's relevant - the troopleader who tried to arrest a priest and had three of his men killed/wounded as a result probably cares. I don't see how that could become innacurate unless the feature (believers defending a priest) is actually removed in the future. Westgate 00:15, 1 June 2007 (CEST)

To be clear - I am not requesting information on specific elements or abilities of a member of the 'priest' class. I'm requesting information about religion - what it contributes to a realm, what some effects of believers are, etc. Something like the Morale (Region) page. Personally I believe that 'religion' should get this information instead of redirecting here, but either way, that information is nowhere on the wiki and is not accessible to a knight.Westgate 00:19, 1 June 2007 (CEST)

For the most part it's not available to a priest either. Imagine four people who've never touched the priest class before getting together to found a religion. Been there, done that, got the lumps and bruises from finding out what happens when somebody sets your religion as Evil. It's a great exercise in "I wonder what THIS button does?" When I got the option to do a religious takeover of a region, I was both excited and scared- why hadn't anyone done that to the countries I play in? Turns out it's not yet implemented. Until I had a skilled priest in a faithful region, I'd never have known it existed in the first place. I'm trying to get a list of everything we've painfully, slowly learned over the past six months (like why causing unrest is usually pointless for a priest) because it's sure as heck not available anywhere else. As for sharing that document? Well, my first experience with religion was a weapon used to slice off regions from my nation. Religion can be a deadly weapon _once you know how to use it_. It'd have to be a community project where lots of people contribute what they've learned to each other. Hunterada 06:10, 11 June 2007 (CEST)

Agreed. Blundering about, potentially accidentally causing harm, with no guidance is no way for people to play a game. It's odd to me that people think a game without any decent documentation is okay, or that a wiki shouldn't be a resource for players who are trying to understand how the game works. Especially since in some cases the in-game docs just redirect you to the wiki. -- Corwyn 18:06, 16 November 2009 (UTC)

State Religions

Shouldnt there be an option for the ruler to declare a state religion? Its perficly logical as the ruler can choose which religion they want their realm to belive in. This would have implications for those folowers of a different religion and if there is another religion that resides whithin that realm, it would make it harder for them to preach as they would be classed as evil and such. This would be logical for realms such as Theorocracys. --ScottSabin 13:45, 1 June 2007 (CEST)

If you're not already aware, there's a hundred-post thread on the d-list right now debating the current situation in which there are effectively state religions. It seems quite contested; I haven't followed the thread thoroughly but perhaps you should give it a read. Westgate 04:02, 2 June 2007 (CEST)

There's nothing to stop a ruler from doing that now. The ruler can make a law stating that all nobles must be members of a certain religion. If they control the religion tightly enough, they can have that religion declare all others as Evil. If they control the judge tightly enough, or have the judge's cooperation, they can ban any nobles that are not full members. You don't need a specific game mechanic or button to click to do it. You already can. --Indirik 04:34, 2 June 2007 (CEST)

Has anyone read the help page for founding a religion? It's basicly inciting people to have state religions... -Chénier 04:49, 2 June 2007 (CEST)

Also, the game hints(hinted?) that allying with a realm whose state religion is opposed to yours will create troubles with region control. Any idea why this is? -Chénier 17:49, 21 November 2009 (UTC)

"Realms can have an official state religion, which will affect morale in all regions depending on how many of its

people belief in the official religion. While in most cases having a state religion is beneficial, the spread of

a new religion can damage those benefits, and diplomacy can be more difficult, e.g. an alliance with a realm

whose state religion is one considered evil by yours will not be possible without significant civil unrest."

Intercontinental Religions

What I was wondering... Is it allowed to found a religion on one island that already exists on another one? It would seem obvious that it's allowed, but you can never be sure, right? Just in case... Medium 16:29, 20 August 2007 (CEST)

Game mecahnics will adress them as two seperate entities, but it is allowed. -Chénier 20:20, 20 August 2007 (CEST)

And priests?

I know at the start we seemed to want to keep all these things mysterious and all... but now? This tells us how religions works, but gives absolutely no advice to priests. "For the moment, the fun of discovery shall not be spoiled by listing them. Some are dependant on where he is, or on the presence of temples or shrines, or even on the number of believers in the current region." However, this is now known to any player with experience playing priests, but lacks any form of guidance for people just becoming priests (and therefore with a low skill) and/or joining new religions, with few/small temples and few/no shrines, making it potentially quite difficult to shake up the status quo. Perhaps they deserve a manual, by now? -Chénier 02:40, 27 March 2008 (CET)

I'll revise my statement, I'm finding it quite fun to discover new features as they become available to me, and it gives me motivation to spread out and take root as much as possible. Whoever finds the priest game dull must be playing a state religion. -Chénier 22:46, 9 May 2008 (CEST)

Founding

And how does one form a religion? Do you need to be a lord? Or does that option appear to priests? Does it need a skill %? Ceorl 14:19, 29 March 2008 (CET)

If you are a lord, and have the funds, you can "become the enlightened founder of a new religion". --The1exile 15:44, 29 March 2008 (CET)

Used to cost 500 gold, but now seems to be 400, though it might depend on the region or something. -Chénier 16:12, 29 March 2008 (CET)

And you cease to be the region lord when you found the religion, becoming a priest instead and abandoning your paraphernalia and unit. Eleanor McHugh 13:15, 26 April 2008 (CEST)

Maintenance

Keep in mind it is not a single set number. In my faith, some lvl 3 temples cost more than other lvl 3 temples to maintain, must have to do with region type. -Chénier 04:59, 23 May 2009 (UTC)

Also, don't forget to account for the cost of any shrines in the same region. The cost of shrines in the same region are not split out from the cost of the temple. I don't know if the region type affects it so much, it could just be a random variation. --Indirik (talk), Editor (talk) 19:06, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

I haven't tried to figure out what made it vary, but indeed, I compared two regions without shrines to observe the difference in upkeep. Could easily be region type or population, could be random. -Chénier 11:45, 23 September 2009 (UTC)

Temples

I have just increased the temple in my city from a 5 Large Temple to a Level 6 Magnificent Temple the cost was 1300 gold and not 1200. I am not sure if the size of the city has something to do with the increase change or not. But I do know that the Level 4 to Level 5 increase only cost 750 gold not 850.-Brakus Stien

The increase from Level 6 too level 7 was 1800 so I think that it may have something to do with the actual size of the city. The Current population in Eidulb: 43585 of 43600 possible. I know that the pop. was at least this if not at max when I did the increase from 5 too 6.

You have reached the vast and splendid temple area of your order "Sanguis Astroism". There is a sign next to the entrance reading: This temple can provide for ca. 31500 followers.

Enlarge temple - not enough gold in the treasury (takes 2500 gold).

-Brakus Stien

Changing Religions?

How might one "renounce" a religion to facilitate joining another? --Calvin November ^t/_c on 17:02, 22 September 2009 (UTC)

You have to go to a temple of your current religion and use one of the temple options to leave the religion. You'll have to pay off your debts first, if you have any. You can also ask one of the religion elders to kick you out. Or you can emigrate. :p --Indirik (talk), Editor (talk) 17:10, 22 September 2009 (UTC)

One simply didn't "renounce" his religion in that era, they were usually born into a religion and would die as a part of it. I seem to remember Tom stating this to justify why it isn't easy to leave a religion. -Chénier 04:23, 23 September 2009 (UTC)

Which might make sense, if BM characters weren't born pagans with no religion, and frequently traveled between continents which reverts them to paganism. Except that historically, you didn't go back to your old religion and formally renounce it (which would likely get you killed) you went to a /new/ temple or Priest and got inducted.Shwartzring 04:35, 23 September 2009 (UTC)

True, but then you'd need to think of another way to discourage it from being taken lightly, religion was really serious stuff in the times. -Chénier 11:43, 23 September 2009 (UTC)

Pagan does not mean without religion. No one is ever without religion in BattleMaster. You always have a religion, and a belief in gods. Some people just aren't a member of a PC organized religion. --Indirik (talk), Editor (talk) 14:09, 23 September 2009 (UTC)

Yet, you don't need to go back to your home to formally renounce your old pagan religion. vonGenf 14:44, 23 September 2009 (UTC)

Paganism is to organized church what lords are to dukes. Yea, they both have a plot of land, but there's a seizable class difference from it. -Chénier 19:16, 23 September 2009 (UTC)

Paganism is a catch-all phrase for "non-PC managed religions". You're right, we don't bother tracking that you're officially a "pagan", or forcing you to resign from paganism. That's because it's pretty much pointless. --Indirik (talk), Editor (talk) 20:30, 23 September 2009 (UTC)

Priest can gain honour and prestige, but in a very limited way. This is, by example, if they are a lord, which allows them to hold courts, or if they have the hero subclass, to tell tales. Such activities, now and then, give a point of honour or prestige. A priest without title or subclass, though, can't. -Chénier 13:54, 17 November 2009 (UTC)

Yet we have pagan priests. And before someone argues that, I've had a character as one. His religion was destroyed. Anyways, not my point, what if you made it cost like 50 gold (a decent chunk for most nobles to muster) that got donated to the losing religion's nearest temple so that you could leave on good terms from afar, as well as an honour and prestiege loss for abandoning your ways (much like what happens when leaving realms)? It might even make it better if the gold cost to leave at a distance was equal to the distance in some way. Meaning if you're on the other side of Dwilight, that's going to be a fortune. --Kag 22:30, 20 November 2009 (UTC)

I think that leaving a religion, whether of your own will or by being expelled, should have a hefty honour and prestige loss, depending on how it was done. Faith was no laughing matter back then, you wouldn't just shrug it off. It should be even less so in BM, where there are fantasy elements to testify of the presence of the gods. -Chénier 17:47, 21 November 2009 (UTC)

Roleplaying Priests

I just remember coming across something which said that in a medieval theology course you would be taught just as much about medicine and the body as someone studying to be qualified as a proper physician. This does of course sound like a comment about the incompetency of the medicinal profession, but I recall there being a grain of truth to to the priests actually learning medicine (since they were usually the ones most involved with the dead in the civil populace). Does anyone know anything about this/ --Aerywyn 02:55, 23 December 2009 (UTC)

Since priests were the ones sought when one needed help, it was normal of them to learn the mundane means to grant such assistance, when needed. Pagan "witch-doctors" were called so for a reason. That being said, people studying to be a "proper" physician these days were far from what we'd call "qualified", and these aren't things that all would know, nor know at a young age. However, one can also point out that health and education *was* granted by the religious orders, back in the days (not certain how far back exactly this goes, though). In the end, it's your religion, you decide what's important for your priests to learn. ;) -Chénier 05:54, 23 December 2009 (UTC)

Also, priests were one of the few people in any given village that were likely to be literate. So it's assumed that they would have a chance to learn about any number of things. But the priest-as-healer attribute is also heavily influenced by Christianity, so most player-created religions will vary depending on their individual dogmas. - Murakama 07:32, 27 December 2009 (UTC)

Indeed, the constant is that priests were educated. They were educated in animal biology in the ancient times, for example, dissecting live animals to "learn of the mood of the gods" (infected livestock is a good indicator of bad health conditions to come, they simply attributed these signs to the divine), for example. All depends on what your myths revolve around. -Chénier 05:35, 29 December 2009 (UTC)