Talk:Semantic Wiki

Cleanup

It would be a good idea for people who post ideas to remove them or clean them up when they are moved to the front page, or we decide they are not appropriate. This page will rapidly get too cluttered with old idea to follow the current discussion. --Indirik 18:10, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

Maps Service

Using Service Links we can easily add links to region detail pages and other backlinks into the game (family pages, etc.)

Infoboxes

These infoboxes, which are used often as templates, are most important to update, because in one stroke you can convert dozens or even a hundred region or realm pages to semantic information.

Options for Region Info templates

The following ones have been - more or less completly - modified to include semantics:

• Template:Infobox Regions
• Template:Infobox region
• Template:Region
• Template:Infobox_Regions_Small
• RealmBox Project - Can be easily configured for regions as shown here: RealmBox Project/Customizing

Options for Realm Info templates

(add those you found)

• RealmBox Project - Composite but customizable) realm templates can be seen here: RealmBox Project/Preconfigured Templates

Various Ideas

"member of" should cover family relations. The cool thing is that you can also model actual relations using semantic terms, so "son of" and "father of" works great, as does "brother of". I'll add a category for that. --Tom 06:40, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

Maybe a "was member of" for former realms.--Athins 18:41, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

That's an interesting idea, but it would also require further annotations, specifically dates. Anyone know if there's a way to express things like "was a member of X from (date A) until (date B)" ?

I think this could be done using Many-valued properties. --Tom 13:42, 7 February 2009 (UTC)

Following that idea(which I like, but could see troubles with), I think we need a had ruler/judge/general/banker/capital etc. function for lost realms or for just former people in those offices. This could apply to lordships as well and begin to collect a database of claims when you view former council members, regions, lords etc. --Vita Family 15:06, 8 February 2009 (UTC)

Calculating realm population

I've gotten stuck trying to calculate the population of a realm. I can generate a count of the regions/duchies/nobles in a realm, but I can't seem to figure how to do a mathematical computation using the populations of individual regions to get the total population. There is the {{#expr: ... }} parser function, but there is no way to have it perform operations on an unknown number of values. i.e. there is no SUM operator. I'd appreciate any help anyone has.

Population of the regions of Keplerstan, this would list all of them, separated by commas:

44,666, 8,801, 42,900, 3,200, 2,920, 10,003, 1,049, 8,024, 9,600, 12,500, 24,400

I can use "sep=+" t replace the separators with + signs, like this:

44,666+8,801+42,900+3,200+2,920+10,003+1,049+8,024+9,600+12,500+24,400

But when I try and feed the whole thing through {{#expr: ... }}, I get this:

If the population values contain thousand separators, you get an error...

If you restrict it to populations less than 1000, you get this:

So it works, if we just get rid of the thousand separator on all the region pages. But if anyone uses one, then it will error out on all pages that reference that region.

Perhaps we could contemplate adding this: http://semantic-mediawiki.org/wiki/Semantic_Result_Formats. It would add the Sum operator, as well as timelines, charts, calendar, etc. --Indirik 23:12, 10 February 2009 (UTC)

Added, with the following formats enabled: 'average', 'eventline', 'max', 'min', 'sum', 'timeline' --Tom 07:54, 13 February 2009 (UTC)

Eh.... Information > Realm List? And if the table's not good enough for you, you can click on details and it is also listed on the realm page in simpler text, along with the realm's food production? -Chénier 03:21, 11 February 2009 (UTC)

Yes, you could just manually enter the data, but that defeats the entire purpose of the Semantic tagging. All the data is included on the individual region pages. Why enter it again manually on the realm page? And then on the island-wide region listing. And then on the island page where it lists the island population, and anywhere else we might like to display or use the information. The purpose of Semantic tagging is to prevent all of this manual updating of information. Simply update the region's population, and all the places that reference that data are automatically updated at the same time. If a region changes hands you only change the [[part of:: ... ]] tag and it's population/gold/food is deducted form the realm it was part of, and added to the new realm. --Indirik

Oh, I was just talking about having the wiki plug the data from the game pages, but I guess we don't have that technology yet. -Chénier 15:19, 11 February 2009 (UTC)

Not yet, but I hope that we will, eventually. The tagging of the data is a first important step on the path to getting that done, though. --Indirik 16:24, 11 February 2009 (UTC)

Ontology

Another change that I think will help us in regards to the subpage issue for both regions and characters. The way it is now, if we try to use a semantic query to list regions you get them displayed as "island/region", like this:

• {{#ask: [[Category:Regions]] [[part of::Keplerstan]] }}:

If we add a property of [[has name:: ]] then we could add a term or two to the query that would return the "has name" property of the page. The property could be inserted into templates with no display, using the syntax: [[has name::{{SUBPAGENAME}}| ]]. You can retrieve the property like this:

• {{#ask: [[Category:Regions]] [[part of::Keplerstan]] | mainlabel=- | ?has name= | default=Unknown}}

For characters, we can use the variables of SUBPAGENAME and BASEPAGENAME to extract and reconstruct their full character name, like this:

• [[has name::{{SUBPAGENAME}} {{BASEPAGENAME}}]]

We can develop a simple template for people to use that has that built in. I can't, offhand, think of any major use of character names. The fact that only some people use family pages and character pages means that any attempt to use it could only count on gathering a partial list of characters. (Unless the game were to automatically create/update family and character pages on the wiki.)

This property could also be used for anything which is a subpage, such as armies that are subpaged under a realm.

--Indirik 21:55, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

I couldn't be more opposed. We need to fix the names, not hack around them. The subpaging should go away, now that we don't need it anymore. For characters, the problem doesn't exist because these are all string properties anyways. --Tom 07:45, 13 February 2009 (UTC)

I propose the following two properties be added to regions:

• produces food
• produces gold

With these properties added, the gold and food production of realms can be automatically calculated and displayed on realm pages. This will make the information displayed on realm pages much more accurate, and not need to be updated manually. When a region changes hands, just update the "part of" property on the region page and the old and new realms will be updated automatically. --Indirik 22:26, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

I've left these out intentionally, with a new economics system on its way I wouldn't want to invest too much into the old. --Tom 07:45, 13 February 2009 (UTC)

I am working on a concept currently called, the Knight-Lord Match System Please take a look at the concept. I am looking to implement it with the help of Indirik. The concept will require the semantic property to work out: . With this system a certain player can 'search' for matching traits. --Vlad 10:23, 13 February 2009 (UTC)