Talk:Contests/Dwilight Realm Banners/Finalists

For Morek Devercia's 2nd banner.

For Springdale LilWolf's 1st banner.

For Pian, it's a hard choice, I really like Indirik's banner as it is kind of cheery, so that get's my first choice. For second choice Uceek's banner. For Madina I'll go with, hmmm, Meandor's banner, with Nosferatus's banner close behind.

I don't think that ingame the banner's should have poles (it shouldn't be hard to make the banners poleless), although if they have a banner it would be nice to see that on the wiki too.

A wondeful slection of banner,s and some which didn't make the final 20 were great too. A great contest :) --PrinceScamp 09:24, 6 September 2007 (CEST)

I like Meandor's the best, with m2rt and grinninglemon's first one next - they seem more like real banners than some of the other more photoesque creations. --The1exile 14:14, 5 September 2007 (CEST)

I really like LilWolfs and Devercia banners. --Jaune

My vote goes to the Devercia banners for Morek and Madina and LilWolf for Pian en Luries. As for non-realmspecific entries, I like the submissions from Exclude and grinninglemon. -Andrasta 14:21, 5 September 2007 (CEST)

Well actually, it does say Springdale on mine..as i made it quite a bit smaller than it was to begin with, i guess it can be hard to spot. Althought i did say i could easily change the text on the front of the pic, im not sure it goes against the rules to say i can change something after its submitted --Exclude 15:33, 5 September 2007 (CEST)

For me it's, Metsamees. The first one which looks like a head piece and Meandors. Can't put a finger on why but, Metsamees is one of the few banners that look aggressive, a war torn realm, one that (hopefully) will add something to the island. As for Meandors, it's well crafted and looks like an effective banner, symbolic and artistic. Although it is some what comparable to Devercias, and as much as they came first, I believe Meandor has done a better job in making his banner more identifiable in comparison to Devercias. Oh yeah, but mines still the best ;-). --JonniT 14:35, 5 September 2007 (CEST)

I like Shenron's submissions so I'm voting for him. --Abdul Latif 14:53, 5 September 2007 (CEST)

If i am to vote for something else than my own, i guess i'll vote for Uceek's one. It really does fit for Pian en Luries --Exclude 15:56, 5 September 2007 (CEST)

I think Uceek's sword and rose is too good not to get in. Malitia 16:30, 5 September 2007 (CEST)

I like Excludes for Springdale, Uceek for Pian, Meandor for Madina and the orange one of Shenron's for Morek. Crazylozda 16:58, 5 September 2007 (CEST)

Hmm I like Devercia`s banners and Meandor`s banner --M2rt 17:04, 5 September 2007 (CEST)

Well of course i like my own hehe. i am dissapointed my original one didnt make it, but i can see why i wouldnt have made it.

As for voting and what not i must say i like Exclude's it has a nice look to it and the Icon matches well.

I liked the one devercia made for Morek. i think though that he could have done something else rather than put it on a pole, also i like the look of his icon but perhaps a different shape? something that would look a lil nicer under a realm name.

Shenron has a nice look and definitly matches one of the monarchies, But the shield edges look too sharp almost out of place, perhaps softening the edges a lil.

As for Madina, which is seemed to me very difficult to make a banner for, i liked Nosferatus's banner, its got the right idea and its pretty simple. however the name on the ship draws too much attention towards the right side combined with the sails it makes the picture unbalanced, perhaps centering the name or putting towards the Left side even more, or even taking it out.

I had likes the idea of The1exile's picture from the good submissions page, a shame it didnt make the specifications.

Best of luck to you all --Grinninglemon 20:13, 5 September 2007 (CEST)

Just a note: however the name on the ship draws too much attention towards the right side combined with the sails it makes the picture unbalanced, perhaps centering the name or putting towards the Left side even more, or even taking it out. This was intentional, the Ship is ariving somewhere, the entire symbol should 'lean' towards the right, as a sign of ariving. First I tried to flip it, so it sailed from the right towards the left(ariving from the east, sailing west) but in that position, the word 'Madina' looks ugly in my opinion. And besides, I do not think we should change anything on the banners anymore. --Vlad 11:15, 6 September 2007 (CEST)

A little disappointed that mine didn't get through.. any reasons why?

I really like the Pian from Uceek. Thegep 22:26, 5 September 2007 (CEST)

yours had a nice look before you changed the fist, when you added the gradient it become more of a focal point but overpowered the rest of the image somewhat. In my opinion it looked better before the change. --Grinninglemon 22:52, 5 September 2007 (CEST)

So did I, but I got a heap of private messages saying "It's a black hand! Everyone will only think of Avamar and the Black Hand!" I tried to explain that it wasn't, but I finally caved to pressure. Obviously to my own detriment. Thegep 23:21, 5 September 2007 (CEST)

The four I'd select: Grinninglemon's second (Madina), Exclude's banner (Springdale, in my opinion the best), Shenron's first (Morek) and Uceek's banner (PeL). In the light of seeing them on a realm description page and as small icons on the map that need to be easy to notice but not overwhelming, these four are the best in my opinion. Medium 22:41, 5 September 2007 (CEST)

I like the Icon within Meandor's; It is a very differant aproach from my own. I decided to use more patterns as most people focus on icons but Meandor's is clear enough and artistic enough to bypass the usually cliche.

Grinninglemon's sunburst also caught my eye, but the pattern on the edge is broken.

BTW on the original submission page my icons are differant, and have been for awhile, than what is shown here, they are brighter and have been given boarders.

My attempt was to create a realistic banner with realistic colors. A lot of the others seemed to use the brightest possable colors while I wanted something more faded, like real dye or paint, the icons exempt from this ofcourse. That was the largest turn off for me personally. The second was the proliferation of unrealistic swords, a long standing pet-peeve of mine, however that is nothing to say for the banners themselves.

I was very pleased how my madina banner turned out. I especially liked the red and yellow with the green stripe, and am now regretting not makeing a whole flag from based on that. On that note Nosferatu's banner is nearly identicle in color scheme and I like it alot. What I don't like so much about it is the previously mentioned script on the hull, and the overly bright colors. If the script had to stay I would have made it smaller incircleing the inner boarder of the sun on the top, and adding a bit more script like "Regnum Madini."

The quality on Uceek's is fonominal, but i don't much care for the style(I'm surpressing my hatred for fantasy swords, so thats not part of this oppinion) It reminds me of the kind of print i would see on an American Eagle or Aeropostle shirt, or even as some bumper on Adult Swim. THe removal of the gradiant would almost entirely change my oppinion though

Johno88's is simular in my oppinion, good, but doesnt' look like a banner, more like stonework.

Many of the others do though, however some I question the source material, especially on those that did not mention it.

--Devercia 00:18, 6 September 2007 (CEST)

Borders on such small pictures doesn't really work that well. I actually like the icons in here better than the ones with borders..I assume Tom thought the exact same thing ;)

--Exclude 00:10, 6 September 2007 (CEST)

I composed my banners from images that can be found here. Some are out right public domain, but most are under the GNU Free Documentation License. Copyright should not be an issue with them so it didn't really occur to me before now to mention it. --LilWolf 06:32, 6 September 2007 (CEST)

Wow, top 20. Its great to have made it this far, and congratulations to everyone who has. It feels good to see my banner surrounded by good entrants so no matter the outcome from here I'm very pleased.
I vote for myself, of course! ;)
But I also really like Reapers, Rondolo and Exclude's banners.

I agree that source material should be confirmed before announcing winners. I have not really any sources for mine, but I will give a mention to Air Force Medicine for inspiration (http://airforcemedicine.afms.mil/public_affairs/afms_graphics/pages/AFMSA-shield%20-%20small.html). --Uceek 04:13, 6 September 2007 (CEST)

I also wouldn't have minded some feedback as to why the one I submitted wasn't considered good enough for the cut, but oh well. A blow by blow list of impressions for the finalists. I would consider that a banner has to be something that can unite people, be a symbol they can follow either in diplomacy or onto a battlefield. Basically it has to have the capacity to inspire the people of the realm, be something to focus on.

M2rt) Plain. Very Plain. Simplicity can be a good thing, but this is too much of a good thing. I can't see any symbolic nature here and the bottom part looks unbalanced.

Grinninglemon) The sun is certainly nicely done and stellar bodies are always good for a featured element though the border I'm only so/so about. The second symbol is also nice but I'm not entirely sure what (if anything) it's supposed to represent.

Oszero) No way. Too much complexity. As opposite to the first banner as you can get, that tree is just over the top and not what I would expect to see on a banner or coat of arms. For a gallery sure, for a national emblem you expect something more stylized.

LilWolf) I rather like these ones. Simple colours and the elements of the banners aren't overly simple or complex. The icons are a little blurred being simply reduced versions of the banner though, especially the third one just doesn't really work.

Exclude) Nice. The lettering looks more like pringbal than springdale but I'm sure that could be cleaned up. The scrollwork is a little busy but it reduces well to the icon giving the central image that would be fixed in most peoples minds. This would probably be my choice for Springdale.

jonno88) Agree with the comment above on this one, it's not a banner, it's stonework. The implied raised and lowered sections giving it a 3 dimensional appearance just mean it couldn't feasibly happen on a banner. And the icon (which is far more visible to most people) is simply impossible to make out.

Indirik) I must be the only person who isn't fond of the whole include the pole the banner is hanging on style. I think it just draws attention away from the banner where it should be. Aside from that I do really like this banner. Simple, effective (that sun thing again combined with mountain outlines), and the icon isn't simply the banner reduced to insensibility. I'd put this down as my choice for Pian en Luries.

Devercia) As I said above, I'm not a fan of the poles included in the banner. Still these actually look like they could be real medieval banners. Not too keen on the first, it makes me think of a backgammon board and a beachtowel I used to have. Too ordinary and the icon is once again very blurry. The second though is good, gets the impression across well although the icon could use a little more contrast to make it more distinct. I'd take this one for Morek.

Shenron) I'm sure I'd find these more impressive if almost the exact same image wasn't already being used for Sartania on FEI. Aside from that the bird is nice, but the second one puts me off because all I can tell is there is lettering there in some foreign language, no doubt some famous confucian saying or something which while pithy isn't what I'd normally consider the basis of a national standard. Again the icon on the first needs more contrast to stand out and the scrollwork is really really complex (pity the poor weavers who have to make this banner).

Metsamees) Not sure what I think of these. The inversion for the icon was definitely a good move on the first one, you wouldn't be able to see anything otherwise. Again though the texturing on the first makes it look more like a wood cutting rather than a cloth banner. The simplicity of the second one appeals to me and it also scales well to the icon, I'd have this as a secondary choice for Pian en Luries.

Rondolo) Good uncomplicated banner. Perhaps just a little bit bright and once more with the 3 dimensional objects. Raised borders aren't such a problem on this one though, they could simply be layered fabric sewn over top of the other shapes. Not really convinced by the green background framing, but it would make a reasonable alternative for Madina.

Reapers Family) The sword is a little bit too fantastical. We're talking medieval here, not fantasy realms, combined with the dragons it's just a bit too much. And do I have to say it again? Put some actual thought into the icon, don't just shrink the banner down to illegibility. More people will see this than will see the realm banner and it is one more smudge.

Uceek) Solid colours make for banners (highlights acceptable). It's very nice artwork and with a printing press could be viable, but to do it on a banner would be simply impossible. The dot of red does make the icon somewhat discernable but perhaps simply the rose itself would be more recognisable?

Amz) Traditional martial theme. Banner looks to be just a little out of balance, the swords don't quite seem to be in the right positions. Swords are reasonable otherwise, the border on the shield is rather too shiny.

Nosferatus) Easily the best of the Madina banners chosen in my opinion. And what's more some thought was even put into the icon! It is readily associated with the main banner without simply being a reduction thereof. Restrained use of different colours, no excessive shading and complexity. My preferred banner out of all, first choice for Madina.

Meandor) Ok, I've already talked about poles being shown on the banners. I'm not especially keen on either horses or fish so perhaps I'm biased here, but even though I know that thing really is a mythical creature and not just made up by the artist it still looks especially foolish. It'd either drown or starve in very short time and I'd feel almost obligated to chop off its head and put it out of its misery. That aside it's a rather effective banner and the icon blessedly is recognisable. Still I just can't get past the horse/fish thing.

Anyway take all this with a grain of salt, I'm not and never have been at all artistically blessed and know it (function is far more important than form!). None of this is meant to be harsh and I tried to be constructive where I could but as said by Montgomery Burns: "You know, I'm no art critic, but I know what I hate." Feel free to disagree with me :P --Faulcon 04:42, 6 September 2007 (CEST)

Just for clarification my banners were not taken from the Sartanian emblem. I based them upon the Gonzalez emblem. The Sartanian emblem is an exact copy (colour, shield etc) except "sartania" is written on the shield. Shenron 13:10, 6 September 2007 (CEST)

I know you arent a finalist, but i don't mind giving you my opinion of your picture anyways :) Your picture is infact very good, it has only two flaws.

1: the boat is way to much to the left side of the picture 2: the icon doesn't really look that good im afraid, nor does it match the picture. If those two things where fixed, i believe it would have been a finalist --Exclude 08:07, 6 September 2007 (CEST)

I like the Indirik best with the Amz second.

I like them both because of the simplicity of design. These are symbols that are going to be put on armour (hence must not be too hard to reproduce) and banners that must be recognizable from a distance. Faracan

In my opinion, Devercia has done an outstanding job. The banners look both unique, and realistic which are rare among the finalists. Perhaps the icons could be improved some, but the important part of the contest seems to be the actual banner in which Devercia has excelled in. Esorp

its a small world Esorp --Devercia 05:08, 11 September 2007 (CEST)

Mh where to start, First of all one thing bothered me from the begining of the contest, alot of banners won't simply fit with eachother on the same map. There are atleast three styles, even within the finalists page. If we combine those styles on one island, i am sure one would look ugly against the other. For Example metsamees and Shenrons, use alot of shading, these two submissions would look perfectly together, but if a new realm next to the realms with those banners would emerge with a complete difrent style like reapers, Exsclude, Lilwolfs or mine, it would simply look ugly.

Thats why i choose for one style, perferly a simple style, a style in which almost everone could make there banner, without the fancy stuff.

That I why i Vote on Lilwolfs for Springendale, Reaper for Morek, My Self For Madina (if possible) and for Pian en Luries I really don't know... Thought alot but Coudn't make a Choice, I really like Uceeks banner, but i do not like his Icon, I vote blank for Pian en Luries. --Vlad 09:30, 6 September 2007 (CEST)

Voting for second banner of Devercia for Morek (icon needs improvement though), banner of Nosferatus for Madina, first banner of Shenron for Springdale and banner of Uceek for Pian (love the new icon, really!). Foreign Curs 09:55, 6 September 2007 (CEST)

some icon alternatives http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc148/Devercia/Morekicon3-1.png http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc148/Devercia/Morekicon2.png --Devercia 00:19, 7 September 2007 (CEST)

I would adjust it still. The shield form is best, as it is more 'logical' on a map instead of a square which doesn't really makes sense. But the shield one's green is too light of color. Perhaps you could make a shield form with the authentic darker green and the red star instead of the stripes and dots? Foreign Curs 13:24, 8 September 2007 (CEST)

Yes, i do have alot of sparetime..and seeing as we have a small icon problem here, I was hoping i could help out a bit :) hope its ok

How does this work? http://www.home.no/profet/images/Morekicon-13.png --Exclude 00:38, 11 September 2007 (CEST)

THe more the better, I am most worried that the contrast between the green and red will be too little with the way it was and so I made the lighter version. I don't like the lighter version as much but it is more obviouse to the eyes as to what the colors are at such a small size. Thanks for the support Exclude --Devercia 05:08, 11 September 2007 (CEST)

Here's another one, with the swords this time: http://www.home.no/profet/images/Morekicon-24.png http://www.home.no/profet/images/Morekicon-23.png ... But details get so small at that size, so i dunno if thats actually any better --Exclude 23:48, 11 September 2007 (CEST)

Well, if Tom allows us to proceed with the final comments (see headline on bottom of the page), and this flag gets chosen, we could still hold a small vote to see what icon goes best. I do think there are a lot of good ones now, can't really choose anymore :D Foreign Curs 10:13, 12 September 2007 (CEST)

"The dot of red does make the icon somewhat discernable but perhaps simply the rose itself would be more recognisable?"
"I really like Uceeks banner, but i do not like his Icon"

Thanks for the feedback. I've put a black border around the icon and enlarged the sword and the rose to make it more recongnisable. Admittedly, I spent so much time on the banner when it came to the icon I had just cut the shield out and made it 24x24 png-8. But the icon definitely deserves more effort than that. I've also uploaded just the rose on the shield for the banner as an alternate as suggested.
(And for irrelevant clarification, it's 'her' Icon. =P) --Uceek 13:44, 6 September 2007 (CEST)

Exclude for Springdale Indirik for Pians LilWolf's 2nd for Morek Oszero for Madina Hynes 17:05, 6 September 2007 (CEST)

Morek: I really like Devercia's stuff Springdale: LilWolf Madina: Oszeros' tree is pretty nice, and very original Pian... Well, I have to vote for myself...

Note: I apparently messed up the background color, and it's not a true black. (Color space accident...) I have uploaded a color-corrected version. I've left the original as-is, and if Tom or one of the wiki editors wants to swap it out, then they can do so. You can see the gory details here: Image_talk:Pians_Indirik.jpg

--Indirik 17:26, 6 September 2007 (CEST)

Oh well, never mind. It was meant to look like stone work... :P --JonniT 17:58, 6 September 2007 (CEST)

LilWolf's first and third banners and Uceek and Reaper's banners are my favorites. --Ceowulf

I like Nosteraturs icon, the banner is pretty good too but needs a different colour scheme

I also like Grinninglemons icons but they are a tad small, if they were bigger they would make good springdale and madina banners.

Indiriks Pian banner is perfect for the realm description

Devercias Morek banner is also very good with the colour choices and the overall design.

--Aralaiquendi 03:42, 7 September 2007 (CEST)

Of the top contenders, hile Shenron's banner is nice, I can't see it replacing one of the other top contenders. They just fit a lot more specificaly to the our realms. Though Shenron's banner could be used for future realms.--PrinceScamp 00:53, 9 September 2007 (CEST)

my banner has decided to not shop up on the finalist list..only the icon ¬_¬ I think the Uceek family have done an amazing job, well done. --Oszero 13:04, 7 September 2007 (CEST)

Final comments possible?

Votes are obviously already given and eventually Tom will decide which will be chosen. But I was wondering whether Tom could make it possible for everyone to make final comments for adjustments after the final banners are already chosen. Some still need improving. I see a lot of people voting for a banner but still saying it needs improvement this way or another. Like the finishing touch to the already chosen winners. Foreign Curs 13:27, 8 September 2007 (CEST)

I like Exclude's banner, it is high quality and it raises some nice symbols of which the realm can adopt and form a nice RP structure around.

Also, Uceek's banner is decent. I dont know exactly why I like the banner, I just think it looks good.

Valhalla 12.18:27, 12 September 2007 (CEST)