Talk:Redspan Revealer/January Edition 2007

Assassinations

To the speakers for RedSpan: is it often you have your own infiltrators attempt assassinations on fellow nobles? Jezralhm 15:03, 19 January 2007 (CET)

Hmmm ... good point. What's your name? I'm sure our Infiltrators would be happy to pay you a visit and practice their skills on your hairless hide instead. oshea 05:19, 20 January 2007 (CET)

Finegus isn't it? Enjoyed your stay in Darka? Jezralhm 07:05, 20 January 2007 (CET)

I always enjoy visiting and causing havoc for weeks, but the torture I could do without. What's your name? I'd be happy to pay you a visit next time I'm there. -Finegus oshea 16:10, 20 January 2007 (CET)

A simple search here and there would leave you with my name. I am not hiding my identity. Jezralhm 01:21, 21 January 2007 (CET)

Propaganda

Congratulations. Your latest article has made it clear that you are not a newspaper, but a mere propaganda rag. - LilWolf 21:55, 18 January 2007 (CET)

I'm simply reporting the events your realm has announced publicly that our reader might not otherwise notice. --Habap 23:01, 18 January 2007 (CET)

You fail to account for several things, such as that Fade was revealed to be in the underground by the secret police. You make it out like Lavigna made that up herself while offering absolutely no proof of it. You also make the incorrect assumption that it has something to do with Vatticus getting appointed as Marshal. This was an completely separate incident as these people had been in the underground *before* Vatticus was even appointed. Your reference to Darkanism is completely out of place as Darkanism has nothing to do with the whole incident. These combined with your own personal opinions makes the story a mere propaganda piece and not a news story. - LilWolf 23:22, 18 January 2007 (CET)

Have you ever read a RL newspaper? The stories int hem vary alot between each of them. For example, recently there has been rumour that the Royal Navy will scrap some of its ships...these numbers have ranged between 6 and 22 vessels. Every Newspaper saying that this was the "offical" number. But the offical number is that none are actually set, its justa rumour. Newspapers exploit rumours to their best advantage. So we are just doing what journalist do best. ScottSabin 15:53, 19 January 2007 (CET)

Of course you would claim they are not related. Both nobles who opposed the appointment have now been banned. I see a direct correlation. The existence of a state religion and executions conducted by someone titled, Arch Priestess, leads one to believe that Darkanism is involved.

It appears that tyranny and injustice is the normal mode of operations in Darka, so it doesn't surprise me that Darkan rulers would think that identifying them is "propaganda".

Seriously, appointing a loud-mouthed fool who has never fought a battle against an army, nor even fought outside the borders of your realm, to be Marshal has to raise eyebrows. When he has rude and incivil words for everyone except the rulers, to the extent that two nobles objected to his appointment, pointing out his words and actions. How do you get promoted in Darka? Apparently by slavishly annointing the ruling class with praise rather than by showing merit on the battlefield.

A mercenary realm in which loving words rather than swinging swords wins appointment to Marshal? A warrior realm that declares war and does nothing for two months? A Judge more interested in saving face than preserving justice? Darka is a comic opera in progress. I merely expose the comedy for what it is. --Habap 16:06, 19 January 2007 (CET)

Vatticus has never attacked or insulted a noble unless he was challenged first. Furthermore, he is a madman with very little regard for personal safety, which makes him the ideal man for the job he was appointed to. I suggest you don't open your mouth until you know fully what's going on. It makes you look rather stupid. -Pizarro 17:48, 19 January 2007 (CET)

There are those who would argue with your interpretation of Vatticus' actions. Of course, if you allow that when he imagines he has been insulted to be included (he has "visions" a-plenty), he is freed from "blame". By your own admission he is a madman. If a madman is welcomed at the realm's council table, it must make one wonder about the sanity of the rest of those sitting at that table. --Habap 18:55, 19 January 2007 (CET)

Like I said, Vatticus is the perfect man for the job he was appointed to, as he has not failed his tasks to this very day. Even madmen have their purpose. -Pizarro 19:14, 19 January 2007 (CET)

RedSpanians don't really have a leg to stand on if you try to act high and mighty over state religions and tyranny. At least Darka doesn't send infiltrators to stab those who believe in something other than the majority(Min). RedSpan seems to have no problem doing that, or at least AJ doesn't have a problem doing that. We have a duke in Darka who doesn't want to have anyhing to do with Darkanism and that's not a problem for us. We're certainly not going to send an infiltrator after him. I'm sure if RedSpan had a similar situation of someone mocking Da great Goat, AJ would already be on the job(quoting AJ: I care not for individual rights, especially not of those who trample on Da One's Way). Oh what a great and free nation you live in. Such tolerance for others. - LilWolf 17:35, 19 January 2007 (CET)

Again i point you you to RL issues that most realms are based on. After the CofE was founded in England many Catholics and Protestants were killed becasue of thier religion. Becasue they did not belive in the state religion they lost their lifes as it was considered Blashphmy. Do not forget that we are playing in Medieval times, the people were god fearing and still thought the world was flat. So acusing those who do not belive in your religion blasphemous is totally justified. ScottSabin 17:55, 19 January 2007 (CET)

Additionally, AJ is not our Judge and his religious zealotry is not the policy of the realm. --Habap 18:55, 19 January 2007 (CET)

(What do RL issues have to do with anything? we're talking about BattleMaster here, not catholics and protestants. Stop clouding the issue with irrelevancies.) You accuse Darka of religious zealotry and state that "no disagreement or objection to the tyrannical rule of Darkanism is tolerated". Yet when one of your own nobles disagrees with "Da Way", she is assassinated by one of your own infiltrators. So, two nobles getting banned for openly plotting rebellion and public criticism and insult to the Darkan government is state-sponsored religious zealotry, but one of your own assassins attacking one of your own nobles for commenting against "Da Way" isn't? RedSpaniel nobles have even stepped forward with the belief that the attack was ordered by a government official. The hypocrisy here is as appalling as your "news". --Indirik 21:05, 19 January 2007 (CET)

I use RL issues to show you what Religion in the real medieval world was like...just how battle master is. If someone does not like your religion you purge them out and either get you to join your or you banish/punish them. BM is a lot like RL. ScottSabin 21:26, 19 January 2007 (CET)

You can't really compare medieval Europe and BM when it comes to religion. There's no over powering catholic church that has a grip on the whole island or anything even remotely close to that. Ideologically most of the BM religions are a far cry from what was the norm in medieval Europe. In any case, your arguments don't make the accusations you've made in the paper any less hypocritical. - LilWolf 22:07, 19 January 2007 (CET)

BM is a lot like RL. Perhaps like what real life used to be, in the Middle Ages, but not like how life is now. Many people, including myself, play battlemaster to be able to imaginate how it was when honour still meant something, to be able to fight wars on an honourable way, and to get away from the mess that the world is these days, even if it's only for half an hour or an hour a day. Apart from human beings walking around, RL these days doesn't come very near to what BM has to offer.

There is not a single realm in the game where religion has a stranglehold on the government as it did in medieval times. Even the theocracies aren't at that stage. We may reach that level at some point, but we're not thee yet, and probably not for a long time. --Indirik 22:36, 19 January 2007 (CET)

(OOC: I just think some people don't want to use RL to argue here. Some people are arguing IG and some are arguing OG. Thats silly...lol. I'm gunna not argue IG or out, just pointing to the fact that some people here are roleplaying Nobles not debating philosophy of RL conflict vs IG conflict. Thats why they are showing no interest in RL stuff...I'm sure no one here does not get the simularities between Darka VS RS and real world matters of historic and perhaps modern times...cool? No school?) Vashmere 22:54, 19 January 2007 (CET)

OOC: All im trying to do is show you how religion was in Medieval days. The same time period that we are in playing BM. There might not be an overpowering church, but every realm has its own faith. In Redspan we belive of Da Great Goat. Any other god/religion is false (to use) Therfore we will purge those who practice another faith/non beliver that does not want to convert. look at any period in history and look at how many wars have been fought over religion or how many people have died for their beleifs? Same as in BM (except we dont kill everyone), so the assassination of Min, was done by a religious fanatic (same as an inquisitor, just not realm appointed) ScottSabin 12:06, 20 January 2007 (CET)

Not every realm has its own faith. Eston, for example, is allowing priests of several religions to preach within their borders, provided the ideals of those religions do not clash with the ideals of Eston. Eston itself has two main religions (although one is not yet officially founded). Just because RedSpan and Darka (and others) have "state" religions doesn't mean everyone has. Besides, I think it would be boring if religions were realm-bound. Then instead of fighting wars of conquest we'd be fighting holy wars. -Pizarro 14:25, 20 January 2007 (CET)

Shamus' comments

"I find it sad that when ASI was given the chance to make things right between our two realms by selling us Rogeshore, they would not even consider an offer."

This is Horse-crap man...seriously. Shamus compared the struggle between the Ash Sea Islands and Abington in regards to the Islands to what, exactly? RedSpan wanting more land, and offering to buy it? What a damn insult to my Kingdom.

Look at this for what it is. Abington and ASI fought for ages about the Islands...two nations...one place. ASI /gave/ Sullenport over to RedSpan TWICE...but where did ASI get it? From Tara. Similarily, ASI took over Byblack and Rogeshore from Tara...WHEN did RedSpan take up arms with ASI against Tara? NEVER...we asked, better said, I asked...but all i got was the good old fashioned "I am sorry, but we can't." (However, much later in the war, RS did join the fight--so to speak--and ASI was in RS lands protecting HER regions and helping HER takeover regions...which pisses me off so much more now that I even have to recall these mixed memories of love and hate) Back to the point, ASI got several regions from Tara...and THREE of them are now in what I thought were "friendly" hands. Jagla in Falasan, Byblack and Sullenport in RedSpan. But you want more? Byblack, Rogeshore and Sullenport are regions that ASI got from Tara as mentioned above--that I didn't even know ever belonged to RedSpan because at the time RedSpan and Tara were FRIENDS!!! (possibly allies, but I forget exactly). So you better cut the bull here, Shamus, and be grateful that ASI has given you so much already--without hinting you want more, or that we're greedy. ASI invested heavily in our relations by giving you a HUGE city and Byblack...don't belittle our contribution to RedSpan by saying "It wasn't good enough." Further, when ASI+RS spoke in regards to land exchanges, the agreement was clear as day: We give return Byblack AND Sullenport to you if you stay out of the Abby/ASI war, and the King agreed. If there is any honor in your lands, you will revoke your comment, and issue an apology...unless what the RS King agrees to is not worth mentioning. Doc's Revenge

Wow ... so many misguided thoughts ... I'm not sure where to start. Good to see you haven't lost your debating skills while living in that massive mansion in Ashr'illy, DR! I'll summarize my thoughts on the Byblack/Sullenport/Rogeshore situation as follows:

ASI has certainly been honorable in returning Sullenport to us twice, no question there. But the fact of the matter is we owned those three regions long before Tara had them, meaning even longer before ASI had them. Tara took them from us after their turn in the NA gang-raping of RedSpan during The Great War. ASI basically "stole from the thief", as it were. Those regions have always been a part of RedSpan, and always will be. We truly appreciate the return of Byblack and Sullenport, and thank the nobles of ASI for their return. But our two realms will never become true friends until the last piece of Da Kingdom is returned: Rogeshore. We are not asking you to simply give it away, nor are we making any attempt to take it by force. We have chosen to pursue this in an honorable manner, and have offered to buy the region from ASI for a tidy sum. The choice now falls to you & your fellow nobles. I honestly have no idea why you're so attached to Rogeshore; I would think establishing a long-term friendship with a neighbor and a large chunk of gold would be more than enough reason to part with a vanilla region like this. It feels like you're purposely trying to hold it over our heads to continuously rub salt in old wounds that you don't want to fully heal, though I hope this is far from the truth. Make another right and honorable decision by finishing your good deeds; sell us Rogeshore so Da Kingdom can be whole again, and a lasting peace can come to Southern Atamara. -Shamus oshea 16:10, 20 January 2007 (CET)

Why then, old friend Shamus, did RedSpan not tell ASI of these so-called claims when we first took over these said regions? Instead of joining ASI in fighting Tara, RedSpan sat most of the war out...scared gutless. It wasn't until much later that (keeping in mind that ASI and Abington were allies under the pretense that we'd get our Islands back) Gabriel decided that ASI/Abington needed a new friend...and basically promised Sullenport to RedSpan for support...but it was left to ASI to secure it lol because Abington was pushing West and leaving the North in ASI's trust. Even when RedSpan hopped on board--with nautilus' approval--not ONCE did RedSpan make claim of any ties to Byblack/Rogeshore. None. In fact it wasn't until after we gave you Sullenport, and Abington "pre-emptively invaded" our lands, that you took these 3 regions over, and then said "We had them a long time ago." You see, ASI has always spoken of her interest on her Islands. Why is it that RedSpan did not? When ASI+Abington became allies, we laid it down clearly: We'll be allies, but we want our Islands back. Abington agreed. When RedSpan+Tara came to terms and became good friends...well, RedSpan wasn't stepping up for "her lands." It is a shame that you do not consider our nations to be on anything less than "Friend's" terms. Your people betrayed us, and we forgave you...don't forget that, and don't say that Rogeshore is yours because quite frankly, it is as much "yours" as Jagla is "ours." We gave Jagla up to Tara for peace...which she then gave up to Falasan. Our interests in that region are over. In such a fashion, your King gave up the interests in Rogeshore when he agreed to Byblack+Sullenport not too long ago...and going back even further, your King never even made mention of Byblack, only Sullenport, it was I who agreed to ALSO give Byblack to RedSpan so she could better feed Sullenport. If anything, my reputation of being generous supercedes this accussation of being affiliated to anything short of Greedy.

Rogeshore is not a part of Da Kingdom, however, when the proposal did come up in our Royal Council, I suggested that we trade Rogeshore for Wynford with Abington, and then Abington can sell you Rogeshore. We don't want to be overly dependant on anyone for food...but we don't deserve to be painted as the "bad guys" in this affair. It wasn't ASI that gave up her rights to the said region--three times in a row. There is no amount of gold ASI will take for Rogeshore. However, a comparable food producing region can probably be negotiated if the King sees wisdom in it. Doc's Revenge

One more thing, I forgot to mention, by your definition Shamus, ASI is also entitled to "everything" she once owned. Which is a significant portion of what Abington currently calls "her own." However, in a similar fashion, ASI accepted to give up claims to all those said regions--Riverholm included--for Peace and possibly better relations in the future. If the General populace of RedSpan shares your views, than ya'll need to face reality: Everything doesn't return to how it was a long time ago. You have to accept it, and make the best of it. You have a neighbor in ASI that has invested heavily in better relations with RS...a neighbor that never betrayed you or invaded you...a neighbor that has always tried to be friendly towards you. If anything, your Kingdom should follow by our example, and return the neighborly kindness we have always given you, which it seems, you still take for granted. Look at how much blood ASI+Abington had to spill to reconsile. RedSpan and ASI never did that, are you not grateful? Doc's Revenge

I didn't write my piece to start a negotiation for Rogeshore; that's not my job (nor yours anymore). I merely wanted my thoughts on the subject to be heard. I will still respond to a few of your comments though:

Why then, old friend Shamus, did RedSpan not tell ASI of these so-called claims when we first took over these said regions? Instead of joining ASI in fighting Tara, RedSpan sat most of the war out...scared gutless.

I'm almost positive it was mentioned at this point in time (and many other points since). Why didn't we join in the fight? We had about 5 regions then and were trying to stay alive. RedSpan has never been scared of any fight, and I'm offended you would suggest that.

"We had them a long time ago."

Atamara Map This map is about two weeks too late to demonstrate hard evidence of our ownership of Rogeshore and Byblack, but I can describe the situation like it was yesterday. Lamar was sadly on her last leg, and Tara (backed by the NA hordes) had taken Meldeen, Byblack, and Rogeshore from us, and were knocking on Sullenport's gate. From here, Sullenport would soon fall, and we would subsequently sell Lanston and loan Matakonis to Abington to help with their food problems.

In such a fashion, your King gave up the interests in Rogeshore when he agreed to Byblack+Sullenport not too long ago...and going back even further, your King never even made mention of Byblack, only Sullenport ...

I think you've been overindulging on the vintage wines, friend. As a member of the Inner Circle (King's Council), I don't recall agreeing to forfeit interests to Rogeshore at the time when Byblack and Sullenport were returned.

You have a neighbor in ASI that has invested heavily in better relations with RS ... a neighbor that never betrayed you or invaded you...a neighbor that has always tried to be friendly towards you.

?!? Never invaded us? I beg to differ! I've personally fought off ASI invaders, led by King Lelnor: The Battle of Ambermel I

"Always tried to be friendly?" Shave my beard and call me Taran! You put us in a position where we had to give up Byblack/Sullenport/Rogeshore to avoid extinction when we had 6 realms breathing down our necks! Just because we chose life over death does not in any way mean that we have forfeited those regions in our hearts! They will always be a part of RedSpan.

Look Doc's, mistakes have been made by both realms, and both realms have also made attempts to improve relations. How would you have felt if Abington had made the choice to return "The Islands" to ASI, and decided to withold Worav? That's the situation RedSpan is in now: We greatly appreciate the deed of returning most of our ancient homelands, but your good deed remains incomplete. -Shamus oshea 06:03, 21 January 2007 (CET)

I think Doc's Revenge would do well to quit putting his foot in ASI's mouth. House Olik 07:53, 21 January 2007 (CET)

"Why didn't we join in the fight? We had about 5 regions then and were trying to stay alive. RedSpan has never been scared of any fight, and I'm offended you would suggest that."

ASI had like 5-6 bloody regions when I first arrived in Atamara...and when she was invaded by Tara...but we fought. We still fought because we had to. ASI has always said we will fight for our honor, even if no one comes to our aid. Luckily, however, people have stepped up and aided ASI in the struggles then, and I hope they will continue to stand by our sides later if and when the need arises. The Gods know that ASI has always been there for her friends too.

Back then, RedSpan was offered a place to join in immediately, but aiding a small realm like ASI appeared to be a bad investment in your King's eyes...so if RedSpan was not scared to fight, she certainly wasn't as brave as ASI was in the matter, or you can call it foolish too, we did pay a great price for that war initially. Do not forget that in those days when we asked for your aid, our Capital was occupied by foriegn forces at least once a week...we would send you the reports, but nothing would sway you to help. It wasn't until I led our immediate forces to play a tough guerilla war that we defeated our vastly superior invaders within our own borders, but that is another story for another time, had our allies in Falasan/MI not been preoccupied with the South-Hasland matter for so long, maybe RedSpan would have joined us immediately. But that is all strictly hypothetical, truth is, RedSpan didn't fight until she was 100% of victory...because Abington had her back.

As for Lelnor, indeed he did attack you once and it was a bloody mistake in my opinion. And like most mistakes, he was struck down, dead...and just like that, ASI's next monarch ended the short war that Lelnor started for whatever reasons--I forget them now to be honest.

As for giving up the following regions or face war, indeed, we gave you the option. We could have just annihilated you, but it is not in our nature to annihilate realms...so we bargained something that hadn't been done ever until most recently, with what happened between CE and Carelia. We promised to return Byblack and Sullenport over to RS. Now you are confusing facts with memories here, Shamus, because I was General when we first gave Sullenport over, and there was NO mention of Byblack, let alone Rogeshore (which is why you took BOTH of them over from us LATER when ya'll decided behind our backs to invade ASI with Abington). Then later we negotiated for all 3 lands returned to us as you mentioned, and I was King then, and your King wanted Sullenport back. Once again, no mention of Rogeshore or Byblack. But then I said we would return Byblack and Sullenport. Your King never said "Please give us Rogeshore too." He didn't have a face to ask for anything...since it was unheard of then for the victorious to give up lands to the defeated, so to speak. Then you, Shamus, ascended to the throne...and asked for Rogeshore. I told you then, No, and I tell you now, that ASI will not give up Rogeshore without getting another food producing region of equal size. RedSpan gave up rights to Rogeshore many times in a row, and through ASI's generosity we gave back Byblack and Sullenport, but my Realm will not be raped in this matter, and her sacrifices should not be in vain. You still don't seem to be very grateful with your bloodless land acquisitions, which were given to you without any strings attached. Why did RedSpan get Byblack and Sullenport in the first place? You ignore that fact completely. It was because she didn't attack our flank, and kept her word...so we kept ours...we didn't destroy any of the infrastructure, and gave it all back as we acquired it, and with some of our own upgrades. Nothing like this took place between ASI and Abington, where half of the overall infrastructure was destroyed on the Islands.

Now as for putting my foot in ASI's mouth, that is a rather moronic statement. I was the one that set up all of these things as King in ASI, so I am the one that knows how best to explain them. On current events I have no say, nor do I know what is currently happening to be blunt. I've been busy trying to rebuild the Islands. However, if and when the King approaches his Royal Council for advice, you better believe that my opinion on this matter will never change. Rogeshore isn't going to anyone for any amount of gold...it is Ashlantean soil now, it could have been an RS region if she'd had the courage to help us against Tara when our Capital lay in smoke (an average of 10-40% production) when we asked. We almost lost our realm, it is true, Tara had reduced us in size to like 3 regions...all of them badly looted by Talerium/Darka/Eston...it was a gang-bang, but here we are. Doc's Revenge

You insist that because Redspan and ASI have not fought as Abington and ASI have - in other words, because you, as King, did not invade Redspan - Redspan should be "grateful." But you are not King now. You have no authority to bolster such insults. And being King at the time in question only makes you biased, not "the one that knows best to explain." Frankly, Doc, you are the Gabriel of ASI... a man who once enjoyed the spotlight, the power, the influence; and now that it is gone, you act as if it isn't. I wonder if you, like Gabriel, will turn viciously to treason if and when you realize you do not in fact your opinion doesn't quite count for what you thought. House Olik 21:19, 21 January 2007 (CET)

House Olik...pales in comparison to what I alone have accomplished in my life--stacking my family's accomplishments next to your House would truely show you how "notable" your advice is. It is precisely because I am not a King that I am free to speak my mind as it is...without any sense of formalities. You misunderstand my position. I do not speak for ASI. I speak for myself, for what I did, and no, there is no blatant bias here as you imply, my opinion is simply my own, you can enjoy or or attempt to refute it--it is your right. What I do have on 'my side' as it may, is a papertrail a mile long. Do not compare me to Gabriel and his secret dealings...he was always a vile man, like Gaiuhu is, and his actions only proved that fact. I cannot betray any of the places I call home, and I am truely enjoying this freedom of speech not allowed to Rulers that must represent their people, rather than themselves. Am I hard? Yes. Am I tough? Yes. Do I normally put up with crap? Hell no. As much as I enjoyed serving ASI as King, I am not quickly looking forward to a second reign at the crown, it is a lot of work, and requires a lot of patience...that I naturally, do not have. I like to settle things with a sword...call me a brute, or a warrior, it all depends on your own personal experiences. I have always fought uphill battles, and it has made me the man I am. Good luck getting an inch from me unless you're also able to wield your sword. Doc's Revenge

I care not for your opinion of my family. It has no bearing on what I've said. You're biased, and it is obvious because of how sensitive you are to any criticism of your "accomplishments" or even the notion that you are not objective. You are acting every bit as Gabriel right now, and the sad thing is you do not seem to be aware of it. Oh well. The blind cannot be made to see. But you needn't waste time trying to impress me with your "hardness" or your "accomplishments." Your mother was nothing but a cowardly, deceitful traitor and you sir, are nothing but a pompous, overblown old fool. House Olik 19:30, 25 January 2007 (CET)

Of course you don't care, you are pathetic. Why would you care when a true authority scolds you? You are nothing but a worm. This matter wasn't even about you, but yet, you have made it about you. So, in a similar note, come to Ashrily if you wish to back your words up with steel and courage, and not with empty words. I will show you what an "old fool" I am by burying your entire family, should they seek me out in ASI. Oh wait, you're family comes from a long line of parasites that don't do much fighting. Drop by and do your Host a favor...or you can find my mother, the one you in your cowardice, call a coward, in Ibladesh. Now SHE is an Old woman...perhaps you MAY have a chance with her...maybe. But come to Ashrily, and your death is assured, parasite. Doc's Revenge

Your insults are not but the shallow and tired words of the son of a traitor. Like mother, like son. You lie and bluster when you can't be punished for it, but you, like that bitch of a mother you have, are nothing but sweet and noble rhetoric when you can. As soon as she escaped from prison, she sent insult after insult - and your pitiably dishonest family has the nerve to say that she murdered Drago "because of Gauihu's dishonour!" You can't even take responsibility for your own actions, and yet you hold yourself as some kind of "true authority?" Over whom, I wonder? ASI? No, you're not King. However, I am the Arch Priest of Abington, and having married the reigning Queen, I am effectively the King myself. It is I who have the authority, and as usual with your ilk, when you cannot win with your miniscule grasp of reason, you hope to win by stabbing at me. Just like every criminal, high and low, who resents the arm of justice and reason. And just like them, you are beneath me. You are a tired old man whose heyday is passed. Try not to resent this fact too much. House Olik 09:31, 26 January 2007 (CET)

You, A king? HAHA! I will always have authority over you Gaihu, and all of your so-called House. Because I have issued a challenge to all of you, and hopefully, one of you cowards step forward and prove yourselves to be Warriors--and not parasites. You are nothing but a gold-digging whore if you married Armitage. You wish to ride on her dress, to the crown of Abington? HAHA. Good luck. The Abbies may be many things, but they would never be foolish enough to elect you as King. Now come, you blubbering fool, and show me that you aren't all talk. Or you can shove a sock in your mouth, knowing fully, that you live only because you are a coward...that talks too much, and doesn't step up when the moment matters. ~* spats *~ Cowards, youe entire Family are Cowards. Doc's Revenge

Your feigned laughter is but the cover for your tears, foolish old man. You have no authority over anyone, least of all me. Your mother escaped death only by sucking off a prison guard and whoring herself across the land to any peasant who'd have her. The moment does NOT matter, thou fool, because you are not worth anything but the meager effort it takes to refute your ridiculous statements and cause you to froth at the mouth in childlike rage. Your words and accusations mean nothing, based as they are only on your own inabilities - inability to reason, and inability of your family to remain Lawful and Loyal (except to your own inbred relations). You are almost pitiable, except I know that dirty blood can't explain all your faults. You choose your position of laughing-stock, of has-been, of son-of-a-whore, and you choose to act like an ass whenever you don't get your way. Which, I'm glad to say, is very often these days. Continue whining and crying, little man, but I'm not going to meet with you simply because you can't stand to lose a minor debate (again) to me (again). House Olik 21:05, 26 January 2007 (CET)

Let's see if we can start some more trouble... What does ASI think about those RedSpan units who appear to be moving to Rogeshore? There's at least two units that I know of at this time.-Pizarro 21:07, 26 January 2007 (CET)

Gee, I think ASI will think that ASI and Redspan are at Peace. You know, that thing you've never been able to understand. House Olik 21:19, 26 January 2007 (CET)

Lose a debate to the likes of vermin like you? Little worm...you slander my mother's name, but you didn't even have the courage THEN to face her in a Duel to the Death, and now that she is even older...you still cower behind the skirts of your Wife. You live only because of your cowardice, Gaihu, in fact I could have been your family's saviour: I'd have slain you all, and given you a clean slate. Now if you are going to be a little worm all your life, by all means, hide behind your ignorance. When you grow a pair, and take the next step, you'll know where to find me. I'll beat you with a bloody cane if I have to. The Youth is wasted on the likes of parasites like you that don't know a sword from a spear, honor from deciet. What can you say in your defense, Coward? Nothing...because actions always speak louder---and truer---than baseless words. An old man has challenged you, and you have shown your true color: YELLOW. Doc's Revenge

Oh, you deluded sub-humanoid beast. I don't "duel to the death" criminals. Justice is not whomever I can best with a blade. Your mother was a criminal and she was punished as such. I apologize - truly, truly apologize! - if these facts upset you so much, but they cannot be changed. Maybe if your mother avoided consorting with the Black Mambas to kill Drago - which, after escaping prison, she DID - she wouldn't have the label of Traitor. But she couldn't refrain from being a cowardly criminal. Slander, little one, is when the accusation is untrue. You can't accept the truth - big deal, that's your problem. So call me coward all you like - I've heard it many, many times from criminals whenever I refuse their idiotic challenges. Every single criminal, from thief, murderer, traitor to rebel, always wants a chance to stab at the Judge who sentences him. You think you are something special? You think your "actions" (what actions? Writing? HA) speak of anything here? You are not, and they do not. Your accusations mean nothing. Go duel at the voices in your senile old brain; you're out of your league and always have been. House Olik 21:19, 26 January 2007 (CET)

Sorry, Gaihu, your stupidity is beyond anyone's comprehension. You call me a criminal when I have comitted no crimes--last time I checked, challenging someone to a death duel that talks too much bullcrap, isn't a crime. Unless you're such a patsy/pansy that you cannot back up your insults with your petty life. You are a worthless Judge if you claim to of ever laid judgement on me. I look over my history, and guess what? NO BAN FROM ABINGTON. Not now...not ever. So how about you trade in your petty insults for a free ticket to Hades? So quit talking about my mother when you didn't even have the courage to face her then, let alone now that she is so much older. You are a coward, and everyone here knows it, I guess I'm the first Noble to ever challenge you, since apparently, only those you've judged for crimes within Abington have challenged you...amazing. I'd had thought a little worm like you would have angered more Warriors that fight for their realms, while you sit back and avoid battles, hiding in the skirts of your Wife. You will die an old worm, or as a young larvae. Either way, you're still just an insect...and I'm willing to give your wretched soul a new shell, who knows, maybe next time you'll come back as a Dog. Doc's Revenge

More hot air from an old windbag. I'll talk about your mother all I like - she is a criminal and you are criminal by nature. You may not have been banned from Abington, but that doesn't change your nature. I don't know who you are referring to as "everyone here knows it," because the only ones who agree with you are those who hate Abington and/or myself anyway. A worthless statement. Please do, continue to spew your empty threats.... that is what criminals do when they cannot best Royalty. House Olik 21:45, 26 January 2007 (CET)

You are pathetic..you call yourself a Judge, and fail to recognize my RANK? I am a Royal...always will be...you know why? Because I was the King of ASI. You are nothing, a wannbe, a fake. You married into Royalty, and how you did it, I don't even want to know. You have murdered many nobles, you are a criminal...I have never murdered a single unarmed man...I do not execute those I hate, I give them a sword, and give them two options: Die with Honor, or let a Worm like Gaihu eventually kill you. Everyone knows you are a coward, and if they don't yet, they will very soon...because unlike you, a "Never was" haha, I am no "Has been." I am a well respected Duke, and Champion Swordsman...when I speak, people listen, because they know I am not full of hot air like you are. When I speak, I am certain of my words, and I will defend them with my life. I guess you don't have much of a life to defend your petty words with...maybe killing a worm is a crime...I've never squished a bug on purpose before...now I have a moral dilemna. I'll know what to do with you if you ever grow a pair and visit me. I may just seriously wound you, and throw you in a ditch...you can find your way home when you wake up, with that much more dignity. Doc's Revenge

Marrying into Royalty is Royalty. But, it surprises me not that the very basic concepts of nobility are beyond your grasp. "Everyone knows" that making vague allusions to what "everyone" thinks is nothing but an argumentum ad populous fallacy. Yet more evidence of your obvious lack of reasoning power. You seem to think I have a need to "defend" my words with petty duelling, because you take offense at them. Similarly, even were you to slay me in my sleep, my words would not disappear and the truths I have spoken would not become falsehoods. But swords cannot best words. Might does NOT make right - or did you conveniently forget that bit of rhetoric you so enjoyed slinging around? I guess you think might makes right, for you. Quite hypocritical - this assuming your "might" means anything to me, which it does not. It amuses me to know that you think you are so special I'm going to drop everything and play at swords with you. You are NO different than Renquest, or El Cidd, or Doad, or Charles, or any of the other criminals who fell on the way side of Justice and wanted their petty vengence. It is YOU who has to defend your words - your swordplay, your self-proclaimed respect, your crude and shallow insults do not suffice. Only reason will, and in that you have already failed. Get used to failure, old man. It's your only destiny now. House Olik 01:32, 27 January 2007 (CET)

You truely are pathetic...you know why you aren't really Royalty, fool? Because as soon as Armitage dies...or leaves...so does your so-called "royalty" status haha! Mine is forever. Yours is only temporary, and the Abbies will never be foolish enough to elect the likes of a Worm for King. For you see it is because I best you so easily with words, that I offer you a way out, to cease your sense of permanent humiliation: death. I will silence your ignorant tongue, and do the Island a favor. I am quite different from those you have murdered under the guise of being an "enforcer of the law," actually...for you see, I am alive, and I challenge you to a death duel because I tire of these word games you always lose at. I have no satisfaction from slapping you around with my pen. I would much rather bury you with the very same hands that put you in your place with a written pen. For you see, fool, one that is truely skilled with the pen, is that much more deadly with a sword. You wouldn't know that, though, you are no diplomat...or man of importance. I earned my place as King, as Champion Swordsman and current Duke of Ashrily. You've lived off handouts your entire life. Someday Abington will wisen up and get rid of a coward like you that throws terds that spew from your mouth, and then runs, when a true authority comes your way. So I won't hunt you down because you'll simply run...under the skirts of Armitage...so I'll just wait here for as long as I must, even if I am so old, that I have to beat you with a bloody Cane. You will always live only because I allow you to, through your accepted sense of cowardice. A noble is nothing without Honor, and a Worm without Pride. Write that one down...you are who you are because you lack both. Doc's Revenge

The crying begins

Tears already? We never promised a fair fight, we promised bloody retaliation. We promised we would strike unexpected, and we did. You boasted that nobody cared about joining our cause, and two realms have heeded the call... for now. It seems that Darka isn't the only one who would like to see RedSpan reduced to a wasteland. Better call your friends, if they still care about saving a doomed realm, that is! -Pizarro 19:18, 25 January 2007 (CET)

I fail to see how reporting the news of Darka's obvious cowardice constitutes "crying." When you are rotting in my dungeon, where idiot-criminals such as yourself belong, I will have you demonstrate for yourself what true crying is.House Olik 19:30, 25 January 2007 (CET)

Haha, cowardice! You were the one hiding behind two allies when we were still enjoying ourselves in Azzal, if I recall right. And please, more empty threats! My men are already sick from the goatsmell, they need something to cheer themselves up. First, you insult us because "we have no friends", and now that we brought some and they make you crap yourselves, we're "cowards". Make up your mind, goat herder. If you're going to be insultive, at least be consistent. -Pizarro 19:41, 25 January 2007 (CET)

Pardon me? Hiding behind whom? Abington was attacked by five or six realms and we had NO help. We needed no help, because we are the strength you envy but will never match; we are the glory you will never know; we are the justice and honour you cannot even wrap your tiny mind around. I care nothing if you "have no friends," you are cowards first and this is nothing new or capricious of me to say. You were cowards when you were raping unarmed peasants, and you are cowards now that you attack a miniscule realm only with Talerium to back you up. What are you afraid of, hmm? It's no empty threat and you know it. I will make you suffer when you are rightfully imprisoned, little one. I will choke you with your own tongue. I will rip out your manhood, if you have one, and feed it to the dogs. You will bleed and you will enjoy it. House Olik 19:47, 25 January 2007 (CET)

Now now, don't lie. We've seen the reports of Stargard after we declared war. Unless you goat herders were all having a big dress-up party, Abington and Carelia were present. And for the record, we didn't attack a minuscule realm. A minuscule realm attacked us, refused to punish the culprit and will now be suffering the consequences. You shouldn't hide behind the fact that you're tiny and weak, by the way, especially not if you've been so abusive towards us in the past. Don't do the crime if you can't do the time. Before we arrived, you couldn't stress enough how we Darkans were going to be slaughtered by the brave goat herders and their allies. Now the roles are reversed, and the brave (?) goat herders are about to be slaughtered by the Darkans and their allies. Well, we're here, and we did what we promised! Now it's time to keep your end of the deal, and SLAUGHTER US LIKE YOU SAID YOU WOULD. If you can't do that, then you have nothing else to say. Unless it is "Please, make the bad men stop!". A very excited Pizarro 19:56, 25 January 2007 (CET)

Little one, if you can't be bothered to educate yourself as to whom it is you are fighting, how do you plan on achieving victory? And as usual your tired argument about being "attacked" is nothing but whining. One of your nobles was hit by another noble. Big deal. The only reason you declared war was because the internal justice system of Redspan was not to your liking. That's not attack - that's Darka being a bunch of whiny, petulant warmongerers who cling desperately to an excuse, any excuse, no matter how flimsy, to make war so your "nobles" can fornicate with unwilling commoners. You are pathetic. You can't even win an unimportant debate, yet you expect to win against Abington? You didn't last time, you won't this time. Enjoy yourselves while you can. House Olik 23:02, 25 January 2007 (CET)

Do you really expect me to run to the registers every time one of you southern scumbags makes a comment? So Olik is from Abington, big deal. Then replace his name with any goat shagger who called us cowards because we didn't show up right away, or who told us we were not honorable enough to have allies instead of employers, and you get what I mean. And before you say something else, please note that "internal justice" only applies to cases within one realm. AJ attacked a Darkan, which makes it our laws who judge him, not RedSpans. Isn't that even the least bit logical to you? Why else would judges be needed to deal with foreign prisoners? If we were to employ your views on justice, they would simply be shipped back to their own realm and judged there. I bet a lot of them would be punished, too! Furthermore, why are YOU threatening to do stuff to me should I end up in your dungeons? By your logic, Lavigna should be the one judging me, not you. -Pizarro 23:14, 25 January 2007 (CET)

No need to "run to the registers," a simple task of reading comprehension would have sufficed. And I call you cowards because that is the nature of Darka. You hide behind "employers" whenever you don't want to take responsibility for yourselves. You hide behind allies even when attacking realms against which you need none. You attack only the busy or already-weakened, because you know that's the only possible way you have to succeed. You brag about your "superior military" but the only evidence of this is your ability to kill peasants before your army is sundered and your soldiers slain. And no, your laws do not apply outside of your realm - you have the right to punish to your ability any prisoners that wind up in your dungeon, but outside of your realm, you have no jurisdiction. This is de facto justice on the international scale. Yet your realm was complaining because Redspan did not fine AJ enough to your satisfaction - so clearly, you accept that Redpsan has jurisdiction, you simply disagreed with the sentence. In short, you whined because you couldn't punish a man as much as you liked, and because you couldn't force a foreign realm to punish him for you. As for how I am threatening you, it is because you are destined to become a prisoner in my dungeon; and I am not threatening you with a trial and sentence, I am threatening to rip your arms from your sockets and beat you half to death with them! Have you any other questions based on your obvious ignorance regarding justice, honour and logic? House Olik 23:57, 25 January 2007 (CET)

AJ wasn't fined. His bounty gold tallied 600 gold, he was fined for 500, ergo, he still made a profit of 100 gold off his assassination attempt. If RedSpan wanted to fine him, they would have taken his 600 gold, and THEN fined him. The whole reasoning behind punishment is to make someone pay for his crimes, not take away a portion of the loot and let him keep the rest. As for ripping a man's arms off because you don't like him or his actions, that seems to me like passing judgement. Unless you like to wander the streets and rip the arms off random people, of course. The reason we "hide behind" employers is because they are, well, employers. We do not ask them to start a war with someone we don't like, just so they can hire us and we don't have to take responsibility. They start a war, and hire us to help them. We are mercenaries, we fight for gold, what do you expect us to take responsibility for? Killing peasants? We couldn't care less. It's not like we're the only ones doing it. Vae victus, woe to the vanquished, as they say. And we KNOW we fight for gold, we don't need your shining wisdom to tell us that. As for 'jurisdiction', we asked RedSpan to punish AJ so we wouldn't have to punish him later on. And when I say 'punish', I mean 'throw him in the volcano'. Ironically, by trying to protect AJ, RedSpan signed his death warrant. If he is caught, he will be... neutralized. -Pizarro 00:39, 26 January 2007 (CET)

That argument holds no water. A fine is a fine, no matter if the one who is fined doesn't wind up in debt because of it. As for passing judgement, nay, I do not. You, and the rest of your criminal realm, will get what's coming to you simply because you yourselves have given Abington no other choice. You have invaded our Federated Ally. Furthermore, you invaded us during the War of Dishonour. This is a logical, and in fact the only, response to your actions. As for your "employers," the only thing you prove with those statements is that Darka is not truly a Sovereign Realm. Killing peasants is one thing, but your barbaric boasting of raping them puts you on the level of what you yourself proclaim to be - "mercenaries." Commoners yourselves. No true noble fornicates with unwilling peasantry, and certainly no noble brags about it, like it's some sort of accomplishment worthy of your so-called "superior military." And now you will get the consequences of your accumulated criminal warmongering. Let's see if you can handle those consequences without your tearful hypocrisy and fallacious reasoning. House Olik 09:23, 26 January 2007 (CET)

Keep in mind that House Olik is from Abington, not RedSpan. While we have great respect for him, he is not one of our goatly nobles. I do hope you brought lots of carts to carry home your dead. We don't like the smeel of your flowery perfume. Give us mud, lard, and goat-smell! To arms! --Habap 22:31, 25 January 2007 (CET)

Numbers

My recollection is that Darka was the one that was insistent on it being a one-on-one fight. I don't mind that you brought along others. The more the merrier. We have too long simply talked about this. Now we get to fight, as we should have in the beginning. --Habap 23:24, 25 January 2007 (CET)

Yes we were. But my recollection is that you didn't want it to be one-on-one. We merely acted accordingly. It's easy to have allies with you and then call your enemy a coward for not showing up by himself. And if you don't have allies with you at this moment, well, bad luck I guess. We promised our friends they would see blood, it would be rude to send them home now! -Pizarro 00:39, 26 January 2007 (CET)

Your endless words of "Whaaaaaa, whaaaaaa" are disgusting to the ears of a Mercenary. You speak as if you hold some law within your hands, some code of conduct that should limit our assult to be "fair" No fool, not here, not now. Now is a time of blood where you are outnumbered, raped, burned and looted. Abused, tossed and crushed by a superior force that cares little (if nothing) about yourr lack of zies, views on fairness, and distain for our tactics. Your rag of a paer is one big joke. You tell the world to not hire Darka, when it plainly shows Darka come down on nations like lava down the Volcano. Endless pain is coming. Your next days will be ones of hideing children and cattle, wives and woman folk from our violent strike into your feeble armies and ill-prepeared lands. Do not attempt to save face by screaming "unfair"...simply run. Run with whatever you can carry. Leave Redspan and find a safer land to live. For the war to end your Goat, has finally arrived. There is no fair in war...there is only the winner and the dead. This has been Marshal Vatticus.Vashmere 00:26, 26 January 2007 (CET)

I welcome you and your friends. You asked for a fight, though you did wait two months, which made me anxious and disagreeable. Now, we finally get to consummate our wish. I don't mind that you brought them. Shame that not all of you can come. Let the dance begin. --Habap 03:28, 26 January 2007 (CET)

Lets get one thing Straight Darka is twice a big as Redspan, it has 5 cities compared to our 2. You have double the number of nobles that we have. Calling on Abington even it out. Now that you have called on Talerium, which together you outnumber Redspan 4:1 in regions. and 7:2 in cities. With abington help we have evened it out the odds out. And we are not the ones who bosteds about being protected by a ring of Allies, Such As CE, Tal and Eston. So also get your facts stright. ScottSabin 10:30, 26 January 2007 (CET)

Hah, you can't even count, can you, you lousy goat shagger? Darkas has 3 cities. - LilWolf 02:23, 27 January 2007 (CET)

Oh, no! Three cities and a Stronghold. Comfortably padded with between three and six support regions each. Talerium adds another four Duchies to the mix, and the Barony carries it's share at three. By my count, that still means 11 duchies to our 2. If we threw in the entire south federation it would still be 11:8. The point remains that Darka is more than capable of picking on smaller realms without help. -- Filador

Darka would have been more than happy to face RedSpan in a one-on-one fight, but you made it very clear you would have Abington help you as well as Carelia. So we evened it out. The number of duchies and regions is irrelevant. What matters is income and military power. If you look at things like that, you'll note that RedSpan, Abington and Carelia have a combined military strength of around 127 000CS. Darka, Talerium and BoM have a combined military strength of around 117 000. RedSpan, Abington and Carelia have a combined income of around 18 000 gold. Darka, Talerium and BoM have a combined income of around 16500 gold. It is in fact Darka and its allies that are fighting against a larger force because you've chosen to make it so, so stop whining that it's an unfair fight. - LilWolf 12:02, 29 January 2007 (CET)

The facet is that Darka on its own in a one 1vs 1 fight would still out number Redspan. Of course you would be happy. You have more gold and TL's than us. Bringing abbington in, in the first place just even out the odds to make it more fair in terms of numbers and gold income. ScottSabin 12:14, 29 January 2007 (CET)

Haha. Even things out? More like tip the scale in your favor in a crushing way. Abington has 11 000 income in gold compared to Darkas around 7000. They have around 70 000CS compared to Darkas 45 000CS. Combine that with RedSpans forces and income and you'll outnumber us two to one. I'd hardly call that an even fight. - LilWolf 14:33, 29 January 2007 (CET)

How Hard Is It To Loot?

I don't understand you goats! When we loot in your regions, all hell breaks loose. When your production stays unharmed, it isn't good either! What is the problem with you? Easy

Not quite sure about how to answer that question? Are you moaning about your own incompetence or about how we can repair our production quicker than you can damage it? ScottSabin 12:13, 28 January 2007 (CET)

I'm not really part of this war but, I don't see the purpose of instigating them to loot you more...

Darkan Judge stealing from Prisoners

Now I wonder if you goats are really as stupid as you pretend to be. Darka is for the moment not a mercenary realm. Darka is now a realm that is out to punish the goats for the crimes that AJ has done in their name and for the responsibilities they did not take for not having AJ under control. Darka is not acting under a contract. Since Tony refused to pay the gold to Darka and as such valued the life of you goats and every goat in your goat ranch together lower than that gold, Darka is coming to claim it itself. Every coin that can be taken from goats like you will be taken, and as such also what the goats have that are in prison. As such, eventually, the gold will be paid to Darka with interest, until Darka is pleased, and when that will happen depends on Tony. Easy

Darkan Judge asked RedSpan' s Judge a prisoners pact in order to avoid such things but RedSpan Judge refused.So Darkan Judge will now collect the double of Mr Jones bounty from RedSpan soldiers by taking their gold.Also Darkan Judge is going to torture them as well since the war is personal and some tortures serve for strategical reasons.Also Darkan Judge is always willing to sign prisoner pacts if RedSpan Judge ever wishes to sign one.Is that clear enough for you?Any other way you re going to use in order to twist my actions?What are you people drinking and eating i wonder. Lavigna

Lavigna, perhaps he realized that you would unilaterally drop the prisoner agreement whenever it was convenient for you. Since you do after all, have a history of such behavior. Just a thought, dearest. House Olik 18:26, 29 January 2007 (CET)

There we go again,aren t you bored yet?I never,droped a prisoners pact,except your case in wich we both agreed infront of other judges to dissolve it.I didn t break it.I would break it though if i would torture your silly traders or anything like that..but i didn t,i just dissolved it because you were nothing but a bunch of lies.Now,if Ralph the Third doesn t trust me,it is his problem,i m fine with both having a pact and not having one.Gauihu,"dearest" ,for long now you try to throw mud on my name and job and now you re trying to do it even in here.It doesn t work and i were you i would change strategy or just shut my mouth up. Lavigna

Telling the truth never gets old. Especially when it irritates you so much. You "dissolved" it - sure. As I said. You drop agreements when they are no longer convenient. Like when they forbid you from indulging in your growing need to torture people. I suppose you can't be blamed - you aren't out in the field, sewing your wild oats with the rest of the boys, but you feel like causing pointless suffering anyway. House Olik 19:20, 29 January 2007 (CET)

Gauihu,apart DISSOLVING my agreement with you because you lied and was trying to take advantage of Darka,name me one agreement i droped...because you said "i drop agreements".I never droped an agreement.As for torturing,i m torturing those that directly attack my realm,yes.I never tortured a prisoner of the wars we were paid to fight.I torture RS tl's because they are now directly OUR enemies.As you torture your enemies and execute them in the most brutal ways existing.I will repeat you my advice.Shut up.

Lavigna, it would help if you put both fingers in your ears, closed your eyes and stomped your feet while shouting "Shut up! Shut up! I'm not listening!" and then called for your mother. Unilaterally "dissolving" a prisoner agreement sounds like it has exactly the same effect as "dropping" one. If you could explain the difference, that would be helpful.

If I were a prospective employer of Darka, it would worry me that you sometimes dissolve prisoner agreements as you might choose to do so while in my employ, putting my nobles at risk. The bottom line being all that matters in Darka, your apparent lack of justice and un-trustworthuness would be a risk to the success of the realm, I would think. But, heck, Vatticus could always be the Arch-Priest, right? --Habap 19:59, 29 January 2007 (CET)

I don t eevn know who you are Habap but you are knocking obviously the wronf door.You see ,trying to side Gauihu's words and throw a propaganda about me not being a good Arch Priestess and droping agreements is the least i can say ridiculous.AJ has worked with me in the past and i have worked almost with all the realms of Atamara.Now...funny thing is Gauihu is the only one to think i drop agreements.When AJ came as a prisoner to my cells we exchange words of respect,and as much as i respct him even today,because he is a man of honour,i highly dissaprove his attack and he shall face the law of Darka as well.But not even my enemies are in a position to attack me for my word and work!I have the respect of the Honourable Judges of Atamara and everyone knows if i am trustworthy or no.So your accusations Habap are empty and your Judges know better.Find other things to attack because i repeat you,you re knocing the wrong door by attacking me. Lavigna

The difference between dissolving and dropping.Dropping in my eyes would be stop follwing the pact and breaking your own pact in other words.Me and Gauihu tried to find a solution towards the traders (food traders) for our agreement but he started lying about the original agreement we signed thus i prefered to stop anykind of agreement because he was obviously taking advantage of us.When i brought it up infront of the whole Judges and explained the situation most of them agreed it was the right thing to do as well.Also Gauihu didn t seemed trustworthy as Moses if i m not mistaken accused him for repeatedly breaking pacts.Abbinghton while having an agreement with us to keep her people in her realm her traders continue returning even after their Banker was caught and released with a warning and after we clearly asked them to keep them out of Darka.Of course Gauihu said he can t stop them for doing so because his people being hungry comes first.Since we didn t agree on this matter i didn t see why i should trust him and go on with my agreement when he was as well lying about it.Now...as i said i don t need to rpove anything in words as i already proved in the past and till today what a Judge i am by my actions and to those,you can t throw mudd at,as much as you want.Me and Gauihu couldn t get an agreement thus we dissolved even the one existing between our realms.Indeed we passed days discussing it but Gauihu was only willing to demand. Lavigna

You've done nothing to make me believe you can be trusted. You have, over the last two months, changed your public position on torture more than once. You ordered a noble to infiltrate the underground and then, when he spoke out against your promotion of an idiot to Marshall, turned him in for being in the underground. You allowed the sweet words of a madman, who is hated even in your own realm, to sway your decision-making.

Now, I do not know the details of your issues with Gauihu, but the only ones who have thus far questioned his honor have all been either from Darka or sound unbalanced. It is not unusual for your enemies to think badly of you. --Habap 20:30, 29 January 2007 (CET)

Dabug, I suggest you stay out of this, for you clearly know nothing about this. Lavigna was already Arch Priestess of Darka before you were even born. Your accusations of her appointing an "idiot" as marshal are ungrounded, for she had the guts to appoint someone when she knew there would be protests - do you know what that is, guts? Real guts? I don't think so - and during these protests she held tight and eventually showed to all the protesters that Vatticus indeed is a very worthy Marshal. And I wonder which source you are using about those underground things, for that noble admitted that he was conspiring against the government. You are spreading accusations around everywhere and you don't have a clue what you're talking about. Lavigna has never broken a pact, she has always been fair and strict, and she is doing an excellent job as Homeguard leader, something you don't even come close to, Gauhiu. Van Peteghem 20:46, 29 January 2007 (CET)

Your ignorance fails you once more.I have never tortured a man that is not REAL enemy of my realm.In all the wars we were paid to fight i never,tortured,stealed or touched a prisoner,actually most of the time they were getting release the next day.I torutred only RedSpanians and that s either infils of your or your precious Count of Meldeeen today.AJ assasinated my Banker,Finegus tried to assasinate me and Philippe,oh well we are at war ,direct war.So you better stop refering to my name when you don t know anything about my actions as JUDGE.I never changed my position in torturing and law matters generally.You are W R O N G.I hope that is enough of an answer for you.As for Gauihu...better ask around...you surelly hear wrong things for worng persons. - Now Fade...fade was never!asked to join the undergound,it was a stupid invention of his,actually he was conspiring with another tl that had stated to him that he will attack talerium in murderous in order to cause problem.Another time you are wrong.He was found in the undergound.Actually when he insulted me and opposed me for Vatticus,a chance for me to actually get rid of him if i wanted...i asked him to stay instead and learn Darka,Too bad he chose to learn the underground.

As for Vatticus,accuse me all you want,after his banning in Abby he was acce3pted by other 4 realms and got banned,i won t allow you to accuse me for giving him one chance as the reast of the realms diD.I gave a chance to Vatticus to make a new start and he did.Just because your realms didn t managed to do that,you can t accuse us for doing it. Lavigna