Talk:NeoSartania

Realmbox template

You have 168 Duchies? ;) - Bart 23:53, 5 June 2010 (UTC)

Really, they want you to use these templates, because they adjust themselves, only they do not work properly. The same as our largest city is Ibladesh, probable the largest in the game, but on FEI there is no Ibladesh. --Roy 07:55, 6 June 2010 (UTC)

That's a really odd bug in the template. Maybe has something to do with the fact that the realm has only one region, and it's a city? I'll have to see if I can figure it out. --Indirik (talk), Editor (talk) 12:32, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

Actually it's a two region realm. Mahsakon and Idaol. The template is completely innacurate.--Antonine 13:09, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

Fixed the Idaol problem. The number of Duchies and Largest City is beyond my scope though. --Dagoriad 14:11, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

I am not very familiar with the Semantic coding and that kind of things, but if there is anything I can do, just let me know. --Roy 14:18, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

OK, I found the bug. Unfortunately, it's not in the template, but in the semantic wiki itself. I may be able to fix the template to work around the bug, but that won't fix the underlying problem which could be throwing off a lot of other stuff. I have sent a message to the Devs about it but I think that Tom is the only one that may be able to fix it. --Indirik (talk), Editor (talk) 20:43, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

Miscellaneous

So, um, does this realm actually exist? Because I can't seem to see it on the political map. Vellos 04:31, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

Hi Vellos, yes the realm exists. It is based in Masahakon, FEI. --Roy 08:21, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

NeoSartania

Seriously. Guys, what the hell. --Aerywyn 08:07, 8 June 2010 (UTC)

I need something more than "what the hell", can't work with that. :) So, what's up? --Roy 08:16, 8 June 2010 (UTC)

When I saw the treaties I thought NeoSartania was a "working title"... oh boy my shock when I saw that it now looks to be set in stone... please tell me I'm wrong there? Please? Even just "Sartan" sounds like an intimidating name, and you could then talk about the metaphor that the realm is the body of Sartan and "here is Sartan's allegorical fist coming down on your head". --Aerywyn 08:44, 8 June 2010 (UTC)

Well, I have to disappoint you. It is really the name of our new realm. Personally, I have to get used to the name myself. But believe me, it is really hard to find a good name for a realm that is in fact an old existing realm. It need to have some connection with the old realm, and the church of Sartan. And we could hardly name our realm after, for example, Niel. A city which is holy to the Church of Sartan and was the capital of Sartania. But if you know a better name, please submit it. As I received the same reactions on IRC when we had a discussion about the new realm of Sartan. --Roy 09:01, 8 June 2010 (UTC)

Ah... its just the Neo that gets at me. Reeks of Beluaterra. I am actually warming to simply "Sartan"... oh god... horrible... --Aerywyn 09:08, 8 June 2010 (UTC)

I must second Aerywyn on this one. In my opinion, this has gotta be one of the lamest of names ever seen in BM; no offense to anyone. :) The alternatives I can think of (and that have connection to Sartan himself) are Sartanorum, Sartanerra, Holy Kingdom of Sartania...or something along those lines. --Dagoriad 09:11, 8 June 2010 (UTC)

I don't say that I do not agree with you. But we voted for the name, and most of the votes were placed on NeoSartania. Then I must say that the choices we had weren't the best. However, Nova Sartania had my preference. You know, like Carthago Nova. And I like the Carthaginians. But a new ruler will soon be elected soon, and I'll see if there is any possibility for a name change after some time of good consideration about possible names. --Roy 09:30, 8 June 2010 (UTC)

Considering how much time the Sartanians were homeless I am slightly surprised to hear that you didn't have enough choices for the name. :P Likewise, I am pretty sure the name can't be changed so I guess you're stuck with it. --Dagoriad 10:33, 8 June 2010 (UTC)

We were busy fighting a war, and gaining ourselves a new home. Realm-names are last minute things. :) And if we are stuck with it, I am sure to get used to it. --Roy 11:06, 8 June 2010 (UTC)

I proposed Nova Sartania and New Sartania. I despise the name that actually got chosen. --Antonine 15:09, 8 June 2010 (UTC)

One more question if I may...why did you guys choose democracy for the government? Theocracy would sort of be natural choice. It is a bit strange to have a democracy which has a state religion. Not very democratic, IMO. --Dagoriad 11:27, 8 June 2010 (UTC)

It is at this point that, were I less mature, I'd be saying "hurr durr 21st century idea of democracy". Medieval (and earlier) democracies are against the threat of tyranny, not the fair rule for all and sundry. Now let me ask you, is the USA truly a democracy? Regardless of what you say it can be argued that pot is a drug that is banned but alcohol is not. Both do harm to the body. If we changed that from beer and weed to religions, you have a comparable situation. As an addendum, slaves were allowed in Athenian democracy. --Aerywyn 13:31, 8 June 2010 (UTC)

I don't live in the USA so I can't really say what it is. :) However, you have a good point. Still, for a religion which is as ruthless as Sartanism (he is the god of war after all) it is simply a stretch too much to have that work with any sort of democracy. Especially since the religion in medieval age had much more importance and influence than nowadays, to a point where I don't think it is comparable. Regarding the slaves, well, in all gov. systems nobles have commoners; not exactly slaves but not far from it.--Dagoriad 13:57, 8 June 2010 (UTC)

Technically it is a "Democratic Republic," but it is clearly much closer to a republic then a democracy. Anyway, with the advent of the new government system in BM, government types are basically just a name (when it goes to stable that is). --Athins 06:43, 10 June 2010 (UTC)

Nothing stops a theocracy from being democratic and holding elections, either... -Chénier 14:47, 8 June 2010 (UTC)

Actually it will be reformed to a theocracy just as soon as we've elected our ruler. --Antonine 15:09, 8 June 2010 (UTC)

And how, exactly, will you do that? --Indirik (talk), Editor (talk) 15:11, 8 June 2010 (UTC)

Not possible? Well, then we blame Spaticus and rebel against him, I don't know? It is supposed to become a theocracy. I thought they knew what they were doing. :) --Roy 17:09, 8 June 2010 (UTC)

They planned to change the name and then just change the system? Clearly they don't have any idea about what they are doing. ;) -Chénier 02:24, 9 June 2010 (UTC)

Then its just named democracy, how it functions in truth it another matter, fits RP well enough. Like Outer Tilog being a democracy.... well in a way it is. Or Assassins being a tyranny.... well in a way it is.

Besides being named, and actual being democracy are not the same thing. Democracy is by the concept that "people rule".... how much do you rule? And i mean in politics not in life, bottle, games, bed, vehicle or anywhere else. You got a option to choose one or another (read greater or lesser bastard) to represent you as they want to represent you not how you would want to be represented.

Though i'll admit, it is likely alot better to have a nation run by a band of bastards than a herd of people. (1 human may be smart, but a herd, human herd or cow herd, is generally stupid. Stupidity and wisdom are not the opposite ends of the same line, but separate attributes, and wheres stupidity mounts with numbers and at times breeds with itself, wisdom is evend among the numbers. A herd of humans may have a IQ of 80, 100 at good times, but it can have astronomical if not infinitly multiplyng stupidity by factor of 2 (3 at times of peril) per every 4 seconds (0,4 in times of peril).) Oh and this is at best my own personal opinion, perhaps it was unnecessary of me to voice it, sorry if it annoys anyone.

Oh and a name proposition, i basically gots 3: "Sartanheim" (means realm of Sartan), "Sartanyard" and "Gardern of Satran". (could replace the "Garden" with some thing else like: Yard, Lawn, Glade, Bushes, Pit, Basket, Cart, Bed, Bosom, Mighty-weapon, Cup, Pond, Aquarium, Waste, Out, Maybe, Children, Love, Slaves, Home, Thing, Gang, Place, Phlegm .... the options are near infinite). Agent-Smith-Satran, already better than NeoSartan. Or if you must have a hero not the villain, try, RamboSartan, SwartzeneggerSartan, MowglySartan, SteelSartan, HulkSartan, BambiSartan, BeoSartan (as in Beowulf and Sartan). Metsamees 04:46, 9 June 2010 (UTC)

@ Chénier, yes it was the idea that we would change the system. The Sparticus, Duke of Masahakon chose for this system that at the reformation of the government all positions would be chosen and by equal vote. The new elected ruler, now Azgath, should make it a theocracy. That is what I understand of it. Never thought it was impossible. Because in our time in Sartania, as condition for peace, Arcachon wanted us to become a monarchy or something else as long as it wasn't a theocracy. Of course, we did not agreed on that, so still knew nothing. The name however, if it could be changed, I would like it. But that was not in the original plan. And Metsamees, thanks for the names. If I am going to plan a rebellion, I will consider your names. --Roy 06:54, 9 June 2010 (UTC)

You cannot change the name of a realm once it has been set following the initial secession/CTO. You'd have to make some kind of personal plea to Tom, and give him a damn good reason for it, as he would have to manually make the change. (Even following a CTO you have to send the name to Tom, and he manually sets it.) So, you're pretty much stuck with "NeoSartania" unless you can convince Tom that it was a mistake. As for government style, yes, you can change the method of elections/appointments. But there are still quite a few underlying game effects that are set by the type of government listed on the realms listing. Those cannot be changed. --Indirik (talk), Editor (talk) 15:40, 9 June 2010 (UTC)

Can't you organize a friendly Rebellion or let it dwindle into Anarchy (If you can get that organized) to change the Government Style? - Bart 15:48, 9 June 2010 (UTC)

Sartanistan is my favourite. :) Yes, Bart, these two options are possible, but they are a bit tricky and messy. Name's pretty much stuck, though. Also, it's not just a system name, it has an effect on quite a few important features. -Chénier 01:54, 10 June 2010 (UTC)

There is no such thing as a "friendly rebellion". Attempting to do so is an OOC manipulation of game mechanics, and will probably get you bolted. --Indirik (talk), Editor (talk) 11:19, 10 June 2010 (UTC)

Well, I can tell you one thing, Roberd will not be happy with it if we remain a democracy. And his discontent with the wrongdoings of the current government is in my eyes reason enough for a rebellion. He won't start hating his realm mates, but the realm of Sartan was destined to become a theocracy, not a democracy. --Roy 13:25, 10 June 2010 (UTC)

That's not a "friendly" rebellion. A "friendly" rebellion is when the current government decides it doesn't want to be a democracy/republic/monarchy/etc. and goes about making plans to stage a fake rebellion to change it. i.e. "OK, we're going to have the rebellion tomorrow, so everyone get out of the capital except for the four rebels. As soon as it's done, RebelLeader will reform as a monarchy, then step down. Then we'll re-elect OldRulerGuy to be king." That's the kind of thing I'm talking about with a friendly rebellion. If you think the existing government, most especially the people running it, are doing an abysmal job and want to kick them out and do it yourself, then that's not a friendly rebellion. --Indirik (talk), Editor (talk) 13:53, 10 June 2010 (UTC)