Talk:New Attributes

Another way to lower repute

• What about adding that having idle estate lowers your repute? --M2rt 14:11, 9 August 2007 (CEST)

Purpose of page, suggestions

• It's not clear to me whether this page is for speculation about what changes these attributes, suggestions of ideas, or things that definitely change them. Clarification might help. --John 18:03, 9 August 2007 (CEST)
  • Also, some ideas: If possible, Adventurers should get chivarly points when they post monster/undead links that other people follow. One of my biggest problems with the adventurer class is how many people are selfish with those links and thus prevent everyone getting the larger prizes. For region commanders, just courts should either raise repute or lower notoriety. --John 18:03, 9 August 2007 (CEST)
    • Experimental features like this are usually things Tom is working on. He has already begun to implement this one, and the new attributes are actually displayed (or at least placeholders for them) in-game on testing islands. If you have any suggestions regarding these features, you should either add them to this Talk page, or send them to the Discussion List. --Indirik
      • I also don't think the ability to raise Chivalry through tournaments is an ideal one, tournaments shouldn't ever have anything negative about them or we'll be discouraging people from joining. Newcomers especially since new players ought to be encouraged to join to learn the culture of the island, get some experience and mix with other people generally and shouldn't be punished for doing this unless their is an option to join a tournament for a lesser fee to simply watch and not take part (perhaps you ought to be able to only place bets when you don't take part to encourage this?).
• Perhaps how you treat your men to entertainment should have an impact on these attributes. Taking your men to a rough bar might increase notoriety, brothels might lower chivalry, dancehall lower notoriety, etc. Soulblighter 00:31, 11 August 2007 (CEST)
• I think these new attributes are superfluous and are simply variations of honour and prestige. They do not reflect actual character and seem to be just more numbers to code. For instance my randy pirate character has quite high Chivalry while my noble and righteous prophet of a peaceful faith has a negative Chivalry. I would like to simply see honour and prestige being put to better use. Honour could be lost when looting and the like while prestige could be raised with gaining titles and the like. -Balewind
  • These attributes are designed to reflect your character's actual behavior, not your own concept of how your characters should be perceived. So, maybe your characters aren't acting according to your concepts very closely. :p Seriously, though, there has been a lot of discussion about the meanings of honor and prestige on the Discussion List, and many people have a very different idea of what all of these terms mean. These new attributes are an attempt to flesh out the system. Perhaps they can provide a better way to differentiate between different types of behavior. For now, they don't really do anything at all, so you can just ignore them. Perhaps by the time they actually have some kind of in-game effect, they will be more detailed, and have a wider selection of things that contribute to their values. --Indirik 15:06, 19 November 2007 (CET)

• • • As it stands the attributes are NOT indicative of my character's behavior. Much of the numbers I am seeing come from OUTSIDE sources such as Daimons sitting and looting in the capital. Ie: Stuff being done TO them and not BY them. Such attributes denote character yet as it stands do not actually have anything to do with the characters they are reflecting. As far as I'm converned 'Chivalry' and 'Integrity' are just other words for Honour while 'Repute' and 'Noteriety' are pretty much the same as Prestige. One is your moral standing in th world while the other is your standing in the eyes of nobility. The only attribue among the 5 that is actually 'new' is achievments... which can also be easily denoted by looking at a character's family history. Why not simply make Honour and Prestige more fluid numbers? For example you could gain prestige for gaining claims, positions, etc. or loose prestige for being accused of imposture, found wanting for vulgarity (already happening) etc. In the same way you could gain honour for doing civil work and the like (Not a noble like act but definately raises you in moral standing) or loose honour for looting. Which brings to mind a pet peeve of mine that has been showing up recently: People actually GAINING honour for looting?!? That makes NO sense at all. I think the only 'fleshing out' the system needs is in the battle and combat area. It IS called Battlemaster afterall and there are tonnes of places where the battles could be made more diverse and involved. I'd rather the role playing aspect of the game be left a little more free for us to do our own thing because adding more rules and numbers to that department (that may or may not have anything at all to do with the actual character) is just detrimental. -Balewind
      • What's wrong with honour for looting? The more you loot the foreigners, the less hard your own peasents need to work to provide a decent living for you. Not to mention you looting elsewhere typically involves the ennemy not looting you. -Chénier 03:31, 20 November 2007 (CET)
      • Yes, other people's actions can have an effect on how you are perceived. You're a region lord and your region is being looted to the ground? There are battles in your region and you're not there to help defend it? Then apparently you aren't very good protecting them: Down goes your repute! Personally, I like the greater differentiation of the different attributes. I also really like the fact that the actions your character performs affects the differently values in different ways. You can't have extremely high values in all categories, unlike honor and prestige, which anyone can get to high values just by having a character for long enough. You want high Notoriety? Then loot, perform raids, torture prisoners, etc. But don't expect to have a high chivalry at the same time! As far as the looting goes, it is not viewed the same in the BattleMaster society as it is in a modern society. Looting is damaging the enemy, as well as gathering resources for your own realm. After all, they're only peasants, and who cares about peasants? They exist to be exploited. (It's actually in the job description, honest!) --Indirik 05:12, 20 November 2007 (CET)

Unclear

Will other players/characters be able to view your own characters' new attributes? Also, will these attributes have any tangible ingame effects? For example, Honor and Prestige dictate whether or not you can assume a position or change class. Regardless, these look very interesting! Elenar 18:23, 9 August 2007 (CEST)

Adventurers are reputable?

How is this calculated for adventurers? My adventurer capital has a repute of 7. I only saw this while returning from prison! How did he get those points? He cannot do any of the actions which gain repute (I know there might be more that those listed on the page but I can't think of any which might raise an adventurer's repute! AJ 08:02, 12 August 2007 (CEST)

It looks like everyone has a repute of 7. Probably a seed number that was give to everyone? --Indirik 13:49, 12 August 2007 (CEST)

I thinkdventurers should have very bad "stats", they are but commoners and should never be above the common (newbie) noble. That way, once they are knighted, they aren't instantly recognised as men of great deeds, and have to work hard to put their peasent history behind them. -Chénier 18:41, 12 August 2007 (CEST)

Why can't adventurers be reputable? Adventurers could get Achievement points for killing Undead and Monster leaders, they can duel others, and I suppose if you kill or hurt enough commoners in duels your repute, and chivalry will go down while notoriety will go up. The establish good reputations by killing off early threats, and selling rare artifacts to nobles and getting recommendations. I just think the stats should be harder to increase or decrease with adventurers.--Steve2609 06:17, 13 August 2007 (CEST)

Lots of things could be considered great achievements, but if the nobles don't care 'cause you were a smelly peasents and didn't do it the noble way, then it shouldn't be of any help. -Chénier 20:24, 13 August 2007 (CEST)

While adventurers can "duel", nobles do not consider such fights as real duels of honor. Rather, they are just commoners brawling with weapons. In any case, the new attributes have been removed from adventurers. Such things are not meant for those of such lowly birth and station. --Indirik 22:07, 13 August 2007 (CEST)

Actions on Adventurers

Capturing or beating adventurers could rise notoriety, while failing at it lower some of the other stats. -Chénier 00:03, 25 September 2007 (CEST)

No room for notoriety?

I like the second proposal better than the first, in general—but I do think that notoriety, or something very like it, is a good stat to have. People would notice if a particular noble had a strong predilection for brutally looting, beating commoners, or hanging rebels, or torturing prisoners, and I think that the game should have a way of keeping track of this. --Anaris 21:43, 19 November 2007 (CET)

(something) Experience

How about Social Experience? Things your character does, the unmentioned by the game things that enhance their social status as a noble. Running an estate would be a good thing, though whatever else goes in the category might not fit so well. --The1exile 20:44, 17 December 2007 (CET)

Fourth

It's interesting... But I have doubts at how representative the numbers would be. A mere knight who, in a stable realm, managed to get a significant number of the nobles to his side and then enineer a scandal to remove the ruler, for example, requires alot more skill then simply reigning as king for a few months 'cause there was no other candidates who presented themselves. Also, any idiot can declare war, and peace isn't always a smart or desired thing, so it's hard to judge people on diplomatic changes As far black, sending people on dangerous missions also cannot be judged, nor giving the unstable regions to political foes so that they are so busy with maintenance they can't bother you, or even better expelled to another realm after a revolt.

Just saying, overall it's interesting, but you can't judge characters accuratly through game mecanics in a text-based roleplaying game... -Chénier 17:01, 18 December 2007 (CET)

Pie Charts

So how do you see what others have for their pie charts?--Dalakar 16:23, 29 February 2008 (CET)

So this makes someone who did nothing but loot once or twice have a higher black score on the chart than someone who'se done it a hundred times, but also passes some of his time dealing with foreign leaders and conducting battle? -Chénier 16:42, 29 February 2008 (CET)

Not, it doesn't. You don't compare the "pie charts" of others. The game will tell you "this dude is more 'Black' than you" or "this guy is less 'Red' than you". If you've done it a hundred times, then your score will be higher. But you'll never see the actual score. --Tom 09:48, 1 March 2008 (CET)

How? -Chénier 19:08, 7 March 2008 (CET)

Ya I support Chénier's question. I have 1 character in Beluaterra and one in Dwilight; I searched for a way to compare between attributes from different characters, but could not find it. Is it coded yet?

You can always check the pie chart's img url, it tells you the weight for all the shares there. Not being able to see other's pies means you can't say that you are more "black" then them, and being able to see the numbers means you can try to "max" them, so I don't see how this system fufills any of it's objectives, honestly. -Chénier 01:52, 16 April 2008 (CEST)

Here's an example of that "img url": http://battlemaster.org/testing/attribimage.php?Red=9&Gold=5&Green=5&Black=2 So this toon has a total of 21 points, while another has a total of 58. In each case the points are close to 1/3 of the combine Honor and Prestige of each toon. With only two guys to examine, I have no idea if that goes for everyone. I'd ask OOC but that seems too close to competition for "max black", etc. --Recluse 01:46, 9 October 2008 (CEST)

It has nothing to do with honour and prestige; you just gain points in each category as you do stuff. Battles add to red, disreputable actions add to black, etc. And, um, "toon"?? -- Anaris 17:12, 9 October 2008 (CEST)