Talk:Everguard Visionary/Issue 3

If the Daily is a 'rag', and full of 'rantings', Why does the Great ex High King Fisc of the shining and everlasting realm of Everguard even write for it?

Its in character bud, try to relax. Arylon 05:52, 21 May 2008 (CEST)

And erm, my upper sentence was purely IC... Ceorl 06:10, 21 May 2008 (CEST)

....not spoken to the colony in question, and simply moved in to crush it at our leisure, pressing our claims backed by our military machine.

Is this the self-same 'military machine', that allowed Everguard to disintegrate into a patchwork of isolated and underpopulated regions? If so, then I don't think Astrum or Viridian or Caerwyn have too much to worry about. I also find it somewhat amusing that the Visionary would make claims of propaganda and lies against the Chronicle and the Daily, when it has hitherto been written by the ruler of the realm it supports. I'd say that presents a rather difficult case for proving even-sided and impartial reporting upon events concerning your own realm. --Bob 2:10pm, 22 May 2008 (AEST)

Not sure if that is an OOC or IC comment, but I'll treat it OOC. First of all, Everguard "disintegrated" because of the bug. Tom shipped off three of our region lords due to camel case names (even though all three of them submitted name change requests to remove the camel case, and none of them were changed), and before I was able to appoint replacement lords to their positions, the allegiance bug removed my character from power, so I couldn't appoint any replacements. Because I had set the government system to be a lords only election, I was ineligible (thus the "plague" article), and it took 5+ days to actually conduct an election. With no lords in those regions to hold court and such (especially since one of them had just recently been TO'ed) they disintegrated and revolted. The other (1-2) regions that revolted did so because of a HUGE monster invasion into them that just happened to be really ill timed for us.

Second the article is talking about "at the time". In other words, when Caerwyn was founded, we had at least 7-8,000 CS in troops, and Caerwyn had next to nothing. We could have easily swooped in and crushed the colony at that time. The fact that the realm has "fallen apart" since then doesn't really matter to the point made in the paper, that AT THE TIME Everguard could have very well moved in and killed Caerwyn, but didn't. The same with Astrum - we had around 6,000-7,000 CS at the time, and could have moved in and killed them at that point too. But we didn't. So, it is kind of stupid to label us as "aggressive" when we haven't attacked anyone even though we could have easily done so and won. What the situation is now is irrelevant to that point. As for Viridium, I wasn't the ruler when it was founded, so I can't speak to how that's been treated, but I haven't heard of any threats, so its a pretty stupid example to bring up.

Third - you don't know who wrote the articles IC, they are all signed "editorial board". So while its true that I did ACTUALLY write all the articles, this is in character stuff and its stated to be the editorial board of the newspaper. But you can hardly argue that anything in the Chronicle or the Daily is objective, because it isn't. Its not objective here either. No paper is, get used to it. And should that even be a point that you are making, considering you write 95% of the articles for the Chronicle? I mean, seriously - pot calling the kettle black?

Regardless, you can enjoy all the gloating you want to about Everguard having a tough time, but you had better hope that something similar never happens to your realm. It was all OOC meta issues, which sucks for us, but oh well. Arylon 09:16, 22 May 2008 (CEST)

Please stop spreading lies. At the time of our founding, we had equal CS. And all reports from within your realm said that your army was suffering badly from equipment damage and the like and could never pull off a successful attack. Cearwyn relocated because, despite the fact it knew it could win the first battles, we had no recruitment centers, as ruler elections didn't trigger until later. Also, don't write as if Tom had personally killed your realm, we all suffered from these bugs, and Everguard was long already falling apart, hence why the damage was so extensive. All our reports from players in your realm confirm again and again that your army was in pathetic shape, and that it could never pull off a successful offensive. Want to be OOC, be truthful: Everguard was just as bad as Toren. Hell, it was worse. -Chénier 18:12, 22 May 2008 (CEST)

Also, should I note that your being stronger than Astrum had little to do with anything? Then again your military was spread out, damaged, and vainly attempting to keep control of your regions. Not only am I unsure you could have even defeated the small Astrum Forces because of the sea route, but Caerwyn would have kicked your ass, while all your regions would have went rogue as your military wouldn't have been there to maintain it. Lie and gloat IC, sure, but OOC cut the crap. -Chénier 19:21, 22 May 2008 (CEST)

"So, it is kind of stupid to label us as "aggressive" when we haven't attacked anyone even though we could have easily done so and won." Aggressive is not solely limited to declarations of war and active invasions. Let's I walked up to you on the street, pointed a gun at you, and said "Look here, I want your wallet. I have a big gun. Give me your wallet, or I'll kill you and take it from you anyway." Would you consider that aggressive? Or would you tell the cops "Hey, he gave me his wallet of his own free will. I never shot him, so it can't be a criminal action."? Twice now Everguard has used a direct threat of war and invasion (and blatantly said as much both times) in an attempt to get other realms to give them territory. I don't understand how, on an OOC level, you can refer to this as peaceful negotiations. There was no negotiation with Caerwyn. You told them to get out of Eidulb or be destroyed. When Astrum came along, you essentially did the same thing, but with one small exception: If Astrum handed the city over peacefully after relocating somewhere else, you would let their priests preach on the island of Libidizedd. When the rest of the "negotiation" is also "Leave or we'll kill you", then that's not negotiation. It's also not negotiation when you give the other side no choice in the matter. Negotiation is "I'll give you A if you give me B." "No, how about if I give you B, but you have to give me both A and C." "No, that won't work for me. How about I'll give you A if you give me D and 500 gold?" "D and 250 gold?" "Done!" A simple statement "Here's the deal, take it or leave it" is not negotiation. It's a Contract of Adhesion. When backed by a threat of "..take it or we'll kill you", it's not even a contract it's extortion. And it is most definitely aggressive. --Indirik 01:03, 23 May 2008 (CEST)

Bah, that Everguard place sounds like just one man's private little parade to himself. It had it's temper tantrums and now it got squashed by it's own huge opinion of itself. Good riddance to bad politics I say. - Nightling Balewind, 'noble' of Madina