Talk:The Blue and Gold/Issue:1

-Massillion City can support about 15,000 people, not 20,000. Get your facts straight.
-Massillion has been hungry since Kahooli seceeded, since it's all woodland and can't meet the food demand.
-We're not sending them aid and neither is anyone else, because that would only lift their spirits and resistance.
-Eston has NEVER targeted civilians specifically. We're only interested in stealing gold, so that your Duke-for-a-day won't field more militia for us to kill.
-All foreigners agree: Massillion belongs to Eston. You can keep whining until the cows come home, it won't change that opinion. We've had offers from 4 neighbour realms to help us overrun the city, doesn't that send out a message?

Maybe it's about time you get it through your thick skull that you're fighting a lost battle. Massillion WILL return to Eston, whether you like it or not. You all seem to believe you have a chance at independence. YOU DO NOT. Never had, never will. Every citizen that dies is a direct result of your refusal to give up your pointless battle and surrender. Eston has behaved quite nicely in the beginning, giving you numerous opportunities to surrender without a fight, and you chose to ignore the offers. Today, the citizens of Massillions are paying the price. Maybe you should tell them that, instead of giving them false hope of independence.

Marouane 12:18, 5 August 2006 (CEST)

Actually, Massilion City can support roughly 20500 people a week at full production. --The1exile 15:04, 5 August 2006 (CEST)

Marouane, I shall answer your arguements one by one. 1. Maybe it cant support 20000, but when I was duchess I'm 99% sure that there were at least 16000, and I'm pretty sure it was about 20000. 2. I was duchess of Massillion, and, for a day or two(until Estonite pillagers burnt and killed in our woodlands), we had barely enough food, but it was enough. 3. Of course, you'd like to psychologically destroy the people you claim to care about as well as massacre their brothers, sisters, children, fathers, and friends. Maybe you do it with a sword, maybe you do it with starvation. But you still do it. 4. Never targeted civilians? What about the peasents that have been slain BY THE HUNDREDS? You know, about 1000 or so got together in one go, and you mercillessly began to slay them, when the WILL OF THE PEOPLE is against you. 5. I suppose those foreigners are as deluded as yourself then.

WE did not tell the people those things. THEY told us. We were deciding what to do in a free and democratic way when the PEOPLE ROSE UP AGAINST YOU. This is civil war, brought about by YOU. Massillion is no longer the realm of the Black Duke or of Willy. It is a free realm, with a good prime minister, and devoted TLs. The Black Duke created a fair land, a land of love and peace between fellow men. Only the unlawful aggression of Eston has brought strife to us. Only the murderous assaults of Eston have brought such pain to the goodly Massillionites. Vellos 18:49, 5 August 2006 (CEST)

Sale Barony of Makar 17592 City 883 54 Details
Massillion Massillion 10719 City 840 41 Details
Siver Darka 15000 City 814 47 Details

That means that Massillion's maximum population is between 15,000 and 17,000. Most likely, it will be almost 16,000. So I'm pretty sure you weren't paying much attention during your time in office.

We never attacked '1000 or so in one go'. They attacked us, because your own army is powerless to help them. I think you can agree that when troops come under attack, they should fight back, no? And what about the civilian militia fielded by the Dukes of Massillion? Were they not innocent citizens forced to fight an army ten times stronger?

Civil war brought about by us? Are you kidding me? The people of Massillion were happy with Eston until Kahooli seceded. They have always been the ones least complaining about tax rates and such. They didn't rise up against us out of their own free will, but because they were instigated by Kahooli. And you can drop the 'land of love and peace' argument, because there never has been love and peace in the realm of Massillion for the people of Eston, only hatred and war. They have been brainwashed by Kahoolis lies.

Massillion is still very much the realm of the Black Duke and willy. You did NOTHING to even try and expel them. WE captured Kahooli in Agnilar, and willy fled like a coward, as she always does when things heat up. You're just trying to turn that into your favour by posing as valiant heroes who rid Massillion of evil men. Devoted TLs? Quite a few have come to Eston, some have fled, and a lot of them are rookies who don't follow orders, or don't have the guts to fight.

As I and many others have said before, this is a battle you can't possibly win. You're not going to be allowed to exist, simply because Kahooli has been sent to the Colonies. Massillion is a realm founded on treason and megalomania, and it will serve as an example for anyone who thinks about pulling a similar stunt. As I and many others have said before, Eston has given you NUMEROUS opportunities to limit the suffering of the people. Your 'good' Prime Minister denied them that chance, against better judgement, against common sense. Eston will do what is necessary to bring Massillion back to the realm as fast as possible. We've given you the chance to return peacefully, we've tried the soft approach. Looting was our last resort, and unfortunatly, we've had to use it since all else failed. So drop the victim attitude, Onliana. Your 'good' Prime Minister can end the hostilities with one stroke of a pen. If he refuses... don't say we didn't warn you. -Marouane 16:37, 6 August 2006 (CEST)