Talk:Heen/Heenite Highlights/October '07/Mediations with Mesh

Apparently I led a group of determined Mesh nobles to attack Heen? Really? This is the first I had heard of it! Ahh... my legend grows an' I don't even have to lift a finger! Much thanks to the Dog for that. She lies like a snake in a rut but boy can she spin a tale! Soon I'll be 50 fathoms tall, wreathed in flames an' eatin' babies for breakfast every morning! Ah-hahaha! - Tarajist Balewind

Nobody said you "attacked" us, we just said you were part of a movement that aimed to. You can be whatever you want to be Tarajist, but you are no longer a Heenite...and that is all that matters. --Thrydwulf Grancourt Crazylozda 18:28, 6 October 2007 (CEST)

"We were appalled to hear that a plan to invade Heen had been executed by a group of determined noblemen under the leadership of Tarajist to invade Heen". A plan being "executed" means it was done, so actually - Martana did say that Tarajist attacked. It doesn't surprise me Thrydwulf. From the amount of crap your ruler spouts to her peers I find it hard to believe anyone of any intelligence hasn't told her to shut up and stop digging Heen into a hold. --Widfara

Well, i think she means the plan was executed, not the action. No Mesh nobles entered our lands although they did want to. Heen isn't "dug into a hold", far from it infact. --Thrydwulf Grancourt

If only you knew something about the situation, Widfara, but obviously you don't, or you would not say this. Were you there? No. Did you see scout reports of the border between Mesh and Heen? Neither. You are just a foreign general who thinks he should get involved, but since you know nothing, you're the one who needs to keep silent.

Besides, a general like you should know the following: a plan for invasion doesn't start when the troops invade. It starts with preparations. Queen Martana didn't say the invasion had been executed, she said the plan had been executed, that means preparations such as recruitment and gathering forces had been executed. And Meshians have gathered next to the border of Heen under the command of Tarajist with the intention to invade Heen's land. The plan started when the troops were gathered, and that the actual goal, namely invading Heen, wasn't achieved was simply because the mission was aborted due to other factors. Medium 18:42, 6 October 2007 (CEST)

Also, conform the definition of the word 'execute': "to follow out or carry out; do; perform". In no way 'execute' has the obligatory meaning that you should be 'successful in the task'. Execute means to start following the plan, to bring something into motion or 'execution', such as the phrase is. Lets just say, they weren't successful. Tarajist, the wiki is for informative pruposes only, by the way. If you would truly like to share something that's IC, follow the proper sources such as the messaging-system, which was ideally develloped for the very purpose of sharing. The same goes for Widfara. Foreign Curs 19:13, 6 October 2007 (CEST)

And I'd like to add, that my attempt to go from a Cold War to negotiations is the contrary of digging Heen into a hold. If I were doing so, I would surely not have contacted Pablo at all and just declared war already? How much you can try to insult me, and coming from someone who was banned for insults that would be easy for you, there is no way you can depict me as a crazy ruler, if anyone actually bothered to read through the messages. Which crazed dog would ever try to reason to end a possible war? The one that could invade Mesh right now, small as our army is, and still have by far the superior force? Mesh is dearly destroyed right now, and a crazy dog would have taken advantage of that. But guess what, I'm reasoning with your ruler instead to prevent a war that Heen would most likely win due to our advantage. From a warmongering person's kind of view, that is insane, namely not attacking but reasoning instead. Foreign Curs 19:29, 6 October 2007 (CEST)

(OOC: Don't take this OOC. And since last I heard you weren't the definitive authority on what the wiki is for, I'm going to disregard that and continue with this IC discussion/argument. The1exile)

"Were you there? No. Did you see scout reports of the border between Mesh and Heen? Neither. You are just a foreign general who thinks he should get involved, but since you know nothing, you're the one who needs to keep silent."

Wrong. I was a ruler, who regrettably had to listen to Martana's pathetic whinging. As for the plan being executed not actually ebign executed, then it's not really a plan for invasion is it? It's more like a plan of a plan. Saying "They planned to invade Heen" is not the same as saying "They executed a plan to invade Heen". Maybe "They executed a plan to reach the planning stage of invading Heen"? Doesn't quite have the same sensationalist value, I suppose. --Widfara

Being a ruler does not make you allknowing about everything, even I don't pretend that, or do you do know all about the incident we're talking about? Clearly not, because you speak of a plan of a plan; well, no, the plan was complete and perfected, the initial attack was set/executed, but the battle was lost. That means 'executed but not successful'. I think these few sentences sum up what I mean pretty well... Foreign Curs 20:17, 6 October 2007 (CEST)

So, according to you, they attacked but lost? So you're disagreeing with your estimable general who said, see for yourself, "Nobody said you "attacked" us"? Make up your minds already. --Widfara 20:26, 6 October 2007 (CEST)

Indeed, lets just try to win the discussion with such a very strong argument. Foreign Curs 23:26, 6 October 2007 (CEST)

"We were appalled to hear that a plan to invade Heen had been executed by a group of determined noblemen under the leadership of Tarajist to invade Heen. Indeed, beyond the knowledge of you, Chancellor Pablo. At least I hope. The only reason that this plan wasn’t successful was because Heen coincidentally destroyed this invading force in Naraka and Mokut before they could enter our lands." - Taken from the article. I would like to point you to the June edition: June '07 The specific article named Ambushed in Naraka. This would explain why the Meshians were unable to carry out their plan... before they entered our lands. --Thrydwulf Grancourt

Personally, from the reading, I don't think Tarajist et al. technically executed the plan to invade Heen if they never actually entered Heenite soil. I think I understand what you mean though. Perhaps it would be more clear if you said:

"We were appalled to hear that a group of determined noblemen under the leadership of Tarajist, were plotting and preparing to invade Heen. Indeed, beyond the knowledge of you, Chancellor Pablo, at least I hope..."

or since this is a quote from Martana, you could leave it the way it is and put a footnote at the end saying that the noble's under Tarajist did not in fact execute their plans and Martana actually meant they were in the process of planning.

But then again this isn't my paper, but either of those minor alterations should suffice to clarify the passage. --Alex 21:26, 6 October 2007 (CEST)

As long as we understand that the intent was malicious, and as we all know the saying "it's the thought that counts". No matter how poorly the thought is executed, it's still the thought that counts. And it went further than Naraka. Foreign Curs 23:26, 6 October 2007 (CEST)

There was a plan to plan? Now we is gettin' complex! I hadn't even heard about that plan either! The only plan I knew about was Heen plannin' on takin' some Mesh regions for themselves. I was eagerly lookin' forward to the attempt so I could knock the Dog an' her thug, Medium, around some on the battlefield and send 'em home with their tails between their legs. That was the only plan I was privvy to. Oh, that an' the smear campaign against me name. How is that goin' for ya? The lies commin' thick an' heavy from the Dog's mouth so it must be in full swing, she shoulda just taken the duel right at the start an' none of this would be an issue instead of sickin' her pet thug on me with a ban. Propaganda rather than action be a decent refuge for a coward. Speakin' of gatherin' at a border for obvious resaons that ain't about assaultin' a neighbor, what is Heen doin' gatherin' at the borders between Mesh, Heen and the Vlaanderwhatsits? - Tarajist Balewind

30k Daimons marching around Mokut and Tor. Well, i say marching around - more like sitting on their asses. That's a good enough reason to be protecting our border region. We haven't moved out of our borders into Mesh lands, yet i can see a knight of Joppo currently in Watto. We thought plans of plans might be too complex for you Tarajist. That's why we explained it wasn't a plan of a plan. The first plan we heard of was "rogue regions are for the taking" when the undead plundered Latlan and Mesh stood there waiting to pounce... --Thrydwulf Grancourt

To add from the NEW Pablo's first reply...On the anti-Heen faction of Mesh: I am aware of there existence, and I am keeping a close eye on them. lies lies lies hey?! --Thrydwulf Grancourt