Candiels Fissoa Discussion

Letter from Vallyn Rothach (1 day, 10 hours ago) Message sent to the Rulers of Dwilight (15 recipients) Duke Mendicant:

I shall say, as I have said nearly every season since your rebellion and theft of my duchy: The Grand Dogess was removed from her office by a general vote of the Lords Grand Council, the decision making body. Lord Abbot was then authorized to remove her from office for her actions surrounding the rebellion. You constantly claim Lord Abbot worked alone, and yet, all his actions were voted upon and approved by the Grand Council - which is at least half the Madinan nobility in most sessions.

As for Fissoa not being threatened by such a war - their longest standing Ally, an Alliance that has lasted since the founding of the colonies here in Dwilight, is at war. Of course they should look towards aiding in such a fight, for they may lose an ally or the ability to call upon us when their lands as threatened as well.

Now for your claims of Madina being divided within - it is true bickering and arguments within the Grand Council are the norm, if not even encouraged. If the Grand Council was unable to resolve anything it is because the Doge fails in their duty as mediator and negotiator. The Doge is not some dictator who acts as they see fit and informs the council. Nay - the Grand Doge or Dogess must speak with the Grand Council, ask for the Lords approval, and sway their opinions with reason and sound judgement. Madinans work well together, but much of our past times and joys come from the discussions we invoke around such things! I could see how such a new comer, one ill-versed in our ways and provided a title well before his time would be so confused and mistake such debates as true arguments. While you may see disharmony, I see a flow of ideas and beliefs that the Republic can use to become stronger - if an idea is strong and worthy then as Doge I should have little troubles convincing a majority of the Grand Council of it's worthiness.

As for stopping starvation - you are not the only food exporter to the North, and of late Madina has been placing more goods directly into the hands of D'Hara to secure the well being of their cities. Do not claim that your small Realm is soley responsible for such things - Madina exports nearly as much food as your entire Realm produces.

There is no risk to Barca, D'Hara, or Terran to suffer from the removal of Aurvandil - they will gain a strong new ally in the South and their regions will be protected by the new Colony and the armies of Madina as well. Once the rebels in Aurvandil are removed, peace shall return, and the south shall be stronger for it, not needing to fear when Duke Mendicant next feels he has been slighted by actions that are not his to control.

Letter from Mendicant Anhangar (1 day, 10 hours ago) Message sent to the Rulers of Dwilight (15 recipients) Grand Doge Vallyn,

I do not recall have said Lord Court Master Abbot worked alone, in fact I have openly stated he has worked in an oligarchy every time I bring up the issue of Grand Dogess Florence's removal from Madina, do you need me to actually say "Abbot and his conspirators" every time? Abbot was the ring leader, and he did not work alone, I do not need to state that every time I mention it, by this point it should be self evident. Your pedantry is an open statement of the fragility of your own arguments, no rhetorician or noble needs to rest an argument on what is needless pedantry.

Your "flow of ideas and beliefs" as you so beauteously call it, was the greatest detriment to the existence of the republic itself when I was still a governor of the Republic. Lords refusing to work with one another, open disunity and disloyalty, nobles vying for power and undermining the government and other governors, all in the name of power. Grand Dogess Florence went a long way to creating some unity, and a core belief to place Madina around, but the realm was still at chaos, dragged down by its lesser elements. If things have changed since I once knew them, then all the best for you, it is just a shame you seek to replace my Kingdom and its Commonwealth with your republic and its corruption.

There are many risks to Barca if Aurvandil is to fall. I do not say nor do I imply that the Barcan republic is fragile, far from it, they are stalwart and valorous, but with the spreading of rogues and the massacre of Candielian peasants that would come with the fall of Candiels to Pirate hands, would see Barca in a position to once again be attacked from regions we have pacified and civilised. To say that they will suffer nothing from our fall, is a ridiculous statement. To say that D'Hara, will not suffer from our fall, is another fallacy, we happily trade thousands of bushels of agricultural produce to them with each and every harvest. Once destruction and chaos is brought to the Marocciden's by Madina, who stands to gain then?

The Maroccidens will not gain a newer and greater ally, it will see a loyal and honourable friend slain, but tortured and maimed first, in replace for a mercenary state of northerners who have already expressed their hatred of Barca.

If the Maroccidens will ever support Caerwyn control over Candiels, I will be shocked. If the Maroccidens support another bloodbath in Candiels, the mass torture of my nobles, and the execution of my gentry, I will be shocked.

Mendicant Anhangar High Sovereign of Aurvandil, Duke of Candiels Report from Vallyn Rothach (1 day, 9 hours ago) Message sent to the Rulers of Dwilight (15 recipients) Duke Mendicant:

That oligarchy as you call it IS the ruling body of the Nation! Of course they can remove the Grand Doge if they have lost confidence in their abilities! If you wish to call them "conspirators" you may - but when the Lords on the Grand Council votes to remove the Doge, that position is revoked! How more simple can a republic be? When the Lords vote to act, that act is carried out!

I can understand you have difficulty with such a simple concept, because you believe your word is law. Here, the Grand Council is law - they voted, Abbot carried out their vote. It was all according to procedure and law - if the Grand Dogess has an issue with that, well - perhaps she should not have acted without the Grand Councils consent.

Again, your failure as a negotiator and man of words is your failing - it is not that the Republics system is ineffective. It is that you are incapable of working within the system. Demands, threats, and use of Rank do not move the Council. Proper negotiations, words of honour and graciousness will evoke the Council to movement. That you are ill-suited to be a leader is not my fault - that you held the position at all to be allowed to fail is the result of the Grand Dogess and was the grounds for her removal from office.

Thousands of bushels Duke? Please - your own realm needs nearly half of your current harvests to substain itself. Madina with more than twice your food surplus is more suited to that claim than you.

And you again dishonour Caerwyn nobles and Barca in this regard by claiming the Archon Graviel has a dislike for his Barcan neighbours. The Archon has apologized to the Barcan Suffete for percieved slights, and has made it quite clear that the new Realm fully intends to respect the claims Barca holds to Twainville in the North, which was the initial point of conflict between them.

As for such bloodbaths - well, you are the one who broke the ceasefire with your hostilities, and Madinan troops have yet to touch your soil since you negated the cease fire the good Lords of the 'Moot placed in position to protect you. You may rant and claim of all our hostilities and failures to negotiate, but at the end of the day it was Aurvandil who marched her army on the Tower and sacked it in defiance of a ceasefire that Madina was honouring in good faith.

Letter from Mendicant Anhangar (1 day, 8 hours ago) Message sent to the Rulers of Dwilight (15 recipients) Pedantry, Grand Doge, pedantry.

Why seek to preface your arguments with it I do not know.

The oligarchy I speak of, are the various conspirators who formed a political alliance, a la oligarchy, to fill the vacuum created after my secession. As was reported to myself, and many other neighbouring rulers it was based on mutual promisary of titles. This, was reported by multiple nobles who later defected to the Aurvandilan Kingdom as a result.

"because you believe your word is law"

Well now I must object; the law of Aurvandil is that which was agreed upon in the Commonwealth. My word is not law, nor does my word affect the law, the law is upheld by our Arbiter of Justice, I neither uphold the law, nor do I alter the law. The law is that which was agreed upon by the Gentry of Aurvandil. You may well try and paint me as a despot, an absolute monarch, but that is far from the truth. Either you know this, in which case you are lying and creating unjust propaganda against me, or you are ignorant and unknowing and in which case I question why you feel free to comment so on a political system you know nothing about.

"Thousands of bushels Duke? Please"

By all means, ask Prime Minister Marche, or any of his traders, in fact most recently we have agreed to sell Eleven Hundred Bushels, following a thousand bushels from the last harvest. Please, do not comment on matters to which you are nescient, which is seemingly ever facet of Aurvandil.

"And you again dishonour Caerwyn nobles and Barca in this regard by claiming the Archon Graviel has a dislike for his Barcan neighbours."

A bare faced lie. I did not say it was the words of the Archon Graviel, not at all, nor did I even allude to that. I said "Caerwyn", as a pejorative term to describe a large group of nobles hailing from Caerwyn. Perhaps I should have greater explained that, but I should not have to explain every little detail in depth for you, though you make it a painful process in which I must every time we hold exchanges.

"As for such bloodbaths - well, you are the one who broke the ceasefire with your hostilities"

It was Madina who thrice refused peace, and twice refused compromise. It was Madina who started this war, and Madina who cast the first stone in a siege of Candiels. An irrelevant point, in fact, I believe you even refused an official ceasefire when asked, and further refused any sort of negotiation.

"and Madinan troops have yet to touch your soil since you negated the cease fire the good Lords of the 'Moot placed in position to protect you"

Another irrelevant point. It does not change the fact you refused peace and you refused compromise, you insisted upon war, you absolutely refused to even discuss peace of any sort, even when we were internationally mediated, you would have none of it.

"You may rant and claim of all our hostilities and failures to negotiate, but at the end of the day it was Aurvandil who marched her army on the Tower and sacked it in defiance of a ceasefire that Madina was honouring in good faith."

The continuation of an irrelevant point. You refused peace, you refused compromise, you refused mediation and you refused negotiation. You were not honouring a ceasefire so much as expanding your holdings and for the time being ignoring Aurvandil until such as a time as the Marocciden's realms got bored of asking you to bother to negotiate.

As I have said before, if you will you not agree to peace, or to even talk of peace, then that is why we launch our campaigns against you. For we are forced, to force you to accept peace, otherwise there will never be peace. I have desired peace from the moment I have seceded, and Madina refuses it, only by placing Madina in a position in which they can no longer fight, or lose the will to fight, will peace achieved. After all, you have made it clear no negotiation, no mediation, no foreign monitoring and no foreign intervention will ever bring peace.

Report from Vallyn Rothach (1 day, 8 hours ago) Message sent to the Rulers of Dwilight (15 recipients) Duke Mendicant:

Please, if you are willing to compromise - please tell me what Aurvandil is willing to offer besides "Peace" to ensure that this war does not continue?

It is not Madina that was unwilling to compromise - it is merely that you never offered anything that would be of value to the Madinan people to accept.

You broke the ceasefire - if you had not no battles would have been fought between our peoples yet still. Did we attack your lands - nay. If peace negotiations were stalled or taking a long while, than you should have rejoiced - for it meant that peace and no war was brought upon us.

You may feel that the peace talks had stalled - indeed they had. I dealt quite often with the Prime Minister Chenier on restarting them. But, this was only more opportunity for a lack of fighting between our people.

I will remind you Duke Mendicant - War was not brought to you after the cease fire was imposed. You may have been frustrated with the talks - but there was a treaty in place to prevent fighting from continuing.

It was Aurvandil, and only Aurvandil who began hostilities again. It is irrelivant if you feel the talks has stalled or stopped, or were at an impass. If you truly desired peace you would have been content to remain at a neutral standing until peace was attained. Instead, when you felt you had an advantage you assaulted Madina.

There is no more talk of peace in Madina - once there was, the Grand Council was willing to negotiate if terms which were agreeable to us were presented. Not once did you offer anything besides an end to hostilities.

There will be no more talk of peace - you have brought that upon yourself. Twice you have attacked us, twice you have been repelled. Madina has every right to prosecute our war upon you after the breaking of the ceasefire. Regardless of how you viewed our intents - it was you who restarted the hostilities. It is your Realm that will suffer for becoming tired of the talks of peace.

Letter from Mendicant Anhangar (1 day, 8 hours ago) Message sent to the Rulers of Dwilight (15 recipients) Grand Doge,

This is indeed a step of progression, you are actually asking me what I can offer you for peace. Of course this is done sarcastically in a weak attempt to debase and attack, but it is progress none the less.

What would Madina want, through a peace? As if peace alone was not its own reward for both our nations. Though, more to the detriment of Madina as much of their nobles only serve the republic because the war promises them lands that Madina cannot deliver them anyway. You say we "did not offer anything of value" and that, paraphrases Madina's entire attitude to this situation. You do not value peace, nor do you value you compromise, you want absolutes, you want our land entirely; you do not want peace because you want conquest, you want revenge. You may not have outright said that, but you as good as said it to all the assembled rulers. What can peace bring Madina after all, but peace?

"If you truly desired peace you would have been content to remain at a neutral standing until peace was attained. Instead, when you felt you had an advantage you assaulted Madina. "

That is not peace, Grand Doge. It is at best a forced interlude between engagements, and such things never last. I want peace, I do not want forced and temporary ceasefire where both of us look to the other and build our forces waiting for the continuation of war. As I have said before, if peace can only be achieved through war, then I have little choice.

"Not once did you offer anything besides an end to hostilities. "

Peace, is what we offer, peace is the reward, peace is the cause in which we of Aurvandil fight and die for. We want nothing but peace. Whereas Madina, it wants concessions, it wants land and territory and compensation. It wants to line its pockets with Aurvandilan gold, to lord over our lands. Again you make it clear, you do not want peace, you want profit from this war.

"There will be no more talk of peace - you have brought that upon yourself. Twice you have attacked us, twice you have been repelled."

I believe it is actually thrice we have attacked you.

But it has been said before all the rulers. Madina, refuses peace, and even when Madina considered peace, they refused it on principle because they did not stand to gain enough from it!

If you want my lands, Grand Doge, then rally your mercenaries, rally your pirates, your brigands and your damned outlaws and bring that dishevelled horde to Candiels and take them! I only ever attacked you as a means to try and bring peace, but you have made it clear you will attack us for conquest, and so be it! Before all the rulers I proclaim that you are most welcome to try and take my lands, my Chevaliers, to whom I had charged to bring me peace, I shall charge to defend with further impending pirate aggression.

This is not a war Madina can win, but rather a perpetual state of warfare until Aurvandil forces you to accept peace. But we can neither bring you to negotiation, nor can we get you to accept foreign intervention, nor will we ask foreign realms to fight on our behalf. Apparently enough blood has not been spilt in this war, Madina still requires its never ending pound of flesh, so by all means, show the continent how little you value peace, and how highly you desire conquest in war.

Letter from Vallyn Rothach (1 day, 8 hours ago) Message sent to the Rulers of Dwilight (15 recipients) Duke Mendicant:

I asked you a simple question. What do you offer - and yet you avoid the topic and turn it on it's head to assail Madina. This is why your negotiations went no where. Provide a simple, concise, concrete offer void of your flamboyant and misleading words.

Those who desire peace would never seek out war - your actions belie the words you speak. And yes - we desire concessions, we have lost a duchy to your actions and words. Lost access to trade routes, lands, food, and resources. If you had wanted us to cease the war, you should have offered concessions. You did not - thus, the talks stalled. Peace in and of itself was a concession made BY Madina - it was the demand you wanted met. You did nothing to convince us to provide it to you, much like you demanded food for your Duchy and expected that because it was what you wanted it should be met.

Good Duke, as I have said - when my fleet comes across the channel, we will do so ready and able to fight. The difference between our war and yours is that you believe this is a fight of attrition you can win. My fleet will set sail when it is ready - not a moment before. We will see you in Candiels soon, I have no doubt.

(ooc: Every time we get into one of these my head spins :D anyways, off - I'll continue this much later).

Letter from Mendicant Anhangar (1 day, 8 hours ago) Message sent to the Rulers of Dwilight (15 recipients) Grand Doge Vallyn,

I told you quite clearly, what does Madina want? I can hazard to guess, but without knowing what Madina wants, it will be an effort in futility. Let us dispense with the opposition of each other, the public debate for a moment, and let us take this with its due seriousness.

If we were to discuss peace, what would Madina want as a conditions for peace? What will Madina want to gain through peace?

No more rivalry, no more opposition and matching of wits, no more prostration, I have no interest in it further, it has proven itself fruitless on more than one occasion.

Mendicant Anhangar High Sovereign of Aurvandil, Duke of Candiels Letter from Julius Galvez (1 day, 5 hours ago) Message sent to the human rulers of Dwilight (14 recipients) Grand Duke Skyndarbau,

How can it be that the Grand Duchy of Fissoa assumed that the succession of Candiels was anything similar to the succession of Fissoa city while the succession of Candiels caused a civil war? Even though you were fully aware of it, we have had discussions with the Grand Duchy regarding a possible interference in the war against Madina. Fissoa was never wrong in their judgement about Aurvandil, they were wrong to elect you as the Grand Duke of Fissoa.

I will introduce a word long used to describe an old Lurian Duke. You are a lapdog of Vallyn. I thought the Grand Duchy of Fissoa was an sovereign nation, independent in their judgement, but you have washed that reputation right off your realm when you declared war upon Aurvandil.

And regarding the young noble who was executed by Aurvandil, I hereby would like to publish a statement of his sister: "Aurvandil may have swung the axe, but Hephaistion was dead long before his execution. It was a mercy killing in its purest form. That doesn't excuse Aurvandil for taking his life, but I do not feel any resentment to them for doing it, he was forewarned of the consequences his actions would have, and he was invited to defect and have sanctity in their realm. Ultimately it was Madina outlawing Hephaistion that saw him executed, and saw him on a spiralling path to ignoble acts and self destruction."

There is no reason for the Grand Duchy to join the civil war, however I enjoyed your attempt to justify your decleration of war. Please withdraw your forces and return to the port of Fissoa with your dignity intact while you still can.

High Sovereign Mendicant,

I can tell you what Madina wants. They never wanted anything less than Candiels. Wait.. They do not desire Candiels at all. Well, at one point they did, but then they desided to sell their claim to the highest bidder, the Caerwynian refugees. Either way, I would like to share with you and the rulers of Dwilight that you had every right to break the 'cease fire'. Grand Doge Vallyn did not wanted to negotiate for peace unless it involved Candiels city as a concession. And I will tell you all that real concessions were proposed to Vallyn, and they were blantly ignored.

My advise to Madina and the Grand Doge, accept an unconditional peace when you still have the chance, because I predict in the future you are required to negotiate about how many provinces of the Duchy of Madina you must hand over to Aurvandil in order to safe your legacy.

Respectfully,

Julius Galvez Suffete of Barca

Letter from Skyndarbau Melphrydd (18 hours, 57 minutes ago) Message sent to the Rulers of Dwilight (15 recipients) Esteemed Rulers of Dwilight,

Sovereign Mendicant,

because you don't seem to understand, or refuse to, I will explain our stance once more.

1) Our support to Aurvandil in the past was a mistake. Calling you our brother was a mistake. Fissoan support was declared based on premises that turned out to be wrong, and as such our "oath" (though we never made a statement within the defenition of an oath) was worthless. How can a judgement based on wrong information be binding?

2) The only reason you are helping Barca is to gain friends. To gain friends for a realm without a legitimate claim to sovereignty. You may call yourself Sovereign all day long, but in the end you still seceded unlawfully, breaking your oaths to Madina. It is but common sense that the latter demands satisfaction for this.

3) You claim we mean to destroy a the "vast Marrocidens civilisation". Firstly, I believe you flatter yourself here. For instance, Madina has a far longer history, tradition and far higher standing than Aurvandil. Fielding an army that is, admittedly, respectable for such a small realm does not make Aurvandil the height of civilisation, whatever you hope to believe.

Lastly, you gladly side yourself and your realm with all of Marrocidens. Apart from obvious geography, I see no real basis for this. To my surprise, Barca even embraces this way of thinking. To see an injusified realm force it's "friendship" onto another getting accepted like that is quite confronting. It was my impression that the realms of Dwilight were governed by common sense and justice. Apparently some are easily swayed to abandon their ideals for a few hundred bushels of food.

I regret to have wasted the time of those uninterested in reading that which is obvious.

Respectfully, Skyndarbau Melphrydd Grand Duke of Grand Duchy of Fissoa

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Letter from Skyndarbau Melphrydd (18 hours, 34 minutes ago) Message sent to the Rulers of Dwilight (15 recipients) Suffete Julius Galvez,

as I explained, we thought Aurvandil to be our brothers. So much even, that Fissoa almost sided against Madina. The Grand Duchy regrets to have made those mistakes. If you have problems with me being elected Grand Duke of Fissoa, I suggest you take things up with the Fissoans.

As you are the first to call me lapdog, I am puzzled as to why that is. For aiding our ally? For siding with justice in this conflict? If I recall it right, it was you who served Lurian Dukes as Banker. Would that make you the former lapdog of a lapdog? A former lapdog wearing a crown?

The Grand Duchy of Fissoa has a long history of taking a stand against injustice. Years on end we defied Alanna's rule, despite her attempts to make us Lurian vassals. Would this make us lapdogs? Mind you, it is not Fissoa that needed the support of two realms to ever come into existence. Though we have been aided by Madina in the past -something we are grateful for- Fissoa always managed to maintain itself, even under the constant threat of the Palm Sea. I wonder, is Barca today able to fend for itself?

I pity the way you must publicly comfort High Sovereign Mendicant. If the man needs a pat on the back, I don't think we must all know about it. Skyndarbau Melphrydd Grand Duke of Grand Duchy of Fissoa Letter from Mendicant Anhangar (14 hours, 40 minutes ago) Message sent to the Rulers of Dwilight (15 recipients) Grand Duke,

You seem confused, you accuse me of not understanding, yet in all summary points you do not seem to address any issue in which I may not have understood, nor have you explained anything I had not previously already understood. Your statement was little more than a feeble attempt to try and debase my argument, which it did not. My points still stand, without refutation.

Barca, are our northern brothers, Julius to whom I look upon as a comrade and confidant. Ever since the founding of Aurvandil, I have enjoyed a close and cooperative relationship with him and Barca, where we both engaged upon mutually prosperous ventures, only dimmed by the Pirate menace posed to Aurvandil of course. You may cynically claim this is a ploy to gain friends, but in Barca I have found an earnest friend and ally, and we, through mutual interests and cooperation, found common ground on which we base our diplomatic relations upon.

You would be well advised not to try and sully things between Barca and Aurvandil, or otherwise claim fault with it, you only galvanise support against your claims, and otherwise lower your own standing, both as a Grand Duke, and a man conducting himself in spreading malicious gossip.

"You claim we mean to destroy a the "vast Marrocidens civilisation". Firstly, I believe you flatter yourself here. For instance, Madina has a far longer history, tradition and far higher standing than Aurvandil."

My remark was upon size, yours is upon historical depth, ergo your point is irrelevant. You do not refute that we have formed a vast Marocciden's civilisation? At best you say "A young realm is young, because its young, therefore it hasn't existed long".

"Lastly, you gladly side yourself and your realm with all of Marrocidens. Apart from obvious geography, I see no real basis for this."

That is because you are wholly ignorant, and to my knowledge you have done nothing to rectify your own nescient miscomprehension before making a comment.

Now, does then Grand Duchy actually have any valid reasoning for attacking Aurvandil or not? At best you have said "you were once apart of Madina" and "There is a war... so we are intervening because its a war".

Letter from Mendicant Anhangar (14 hours, 39 minutes ago) Message sent to the Rulers of Dwilight (15 recipients) Letter from Mendicant Anhangar Message sent to the Rulers of Dwilight (15 recipients) Grand Duke,