Talk:Beluaterran Observer/Issue 1

OOC

Heh, Enweil was going to destroy Riombara and the Dominion had the invasion not come. Before Sint, Heen, Mesh, and Hetland ganged up on her, Riombara was down to her capital. The last victory the Dominion and Riombara had was because Enweil had pulled back because of the invasion, but in truth the force Enweil had gathered was vastly superior to the armies that had amassed to defend against it, and major damage was about to be handed out. Enweil lost a few battles when re-engaging the prepared Riombara, who had stockpiled loads of resources, but these had evidently run out by the time the invasion kicked in and their were saved by the clock. The funny thing is that Enweil actually offered peace, while Riombara thought it was in a position to insult it by asking for the city of Fwuvoghor in return. Then the Dominion declared war on Enweil, but were put to shame as Enweil beat them further and further back, having decided to pick off the weaker foe so that it wouldn't have any distractions when the time came for Grehk. It's what happens when you can't mind your own business and decide to assist an aggressor when he harasses a much stronger realm. Ah... so sad all the fun was cut short, damn monsters. -Chénier 17:07, 27 October 2010 (CEST)

I didn't stick around long enough to witness the invasion, but Riomabara was in an excellent position in the pre-invasion era. While it is possible that Enweil did indeed gather *amazing army and was about to overrun us*, like Chenier wants us to believe, let's rather stick to the *facts* ;) About the Observer...I must say I love it. The articles and design are excellent and the writer seems to know a *lot* about Beluaterra. I really wonder which family he plays, but if he wants to remain anonymous, so be it. :) Too bad immigration is not allowed, though. I would love to join the continent again and have some fun, although I am not sure BT is that fun anymore with invasion going on. --Arakiss 17:15, 27 October 2010 (CEST)

Thanks, Arakiss :) Nice to see we have some readers already. The Riombaran-Enweil war was very interesting, as were the interactions between Enweil and Riombara when the invasion just about started. Maybe I will do a piece on it if I find some battle reports. Beluaterran Observer 08:46, 28 October 2010 (CEST)

There are articles in Riombaran Herald about it. There are also several large battle reports covered there. --Arakiss 11:56, 28 October 2010 (CEST)

I'd like to add to that. The politics at the very beginning of the invasion and what happened afterwards is always interesting, especially since now everyone has a different version of what went down and why this particular group of people is treacherous and short-sighted. --Aerywyn 15:54, 28 October 2010 (CEST)

The Glory of Enweil chronicles the war. Check the archives, the current "issue" is since the beginning of the invasion only. Long story short: Enweil declares war on RoF, occupy Fwuvoghor. Riombara arrive the next turn, declare war too late, the takeover is already started. They are defeated, they pull back, RoF quickly dies. War is maintained. War resumes, Enweil wins direct battles, but Riombara tends to win with mobility when the Enweilian armies try to move around Grehk. Irombrozia creates a second front, but KoA limits them. A big stalemate occurs, as KoA refuses passage to Enweil, while allowing it to Rio. Enweil sends some forces to harass via the north, while maintaining large enough forces to defend the southern border. Avalon eventually comes in to help, Rines is taken, Enweil begins to overwhelm Riombara. Riombara is left with Grehk and a few regions without any infrastructure or production, the end is near. Sint, Heen, Mesh, and Hetland declare war on Enweil. Enweil is horribly outnumbered, but win battle after battle after battle until the general leaves for a while (I went for a camping trip). Losses start stacking up after that, leading Enweil and the others (who were being interested in the northern front) to sue for peace. Meanwhile, Riombara had rebuilt, and Irombrozia did not manage without Enweil's aid. They were starved, and the pro-Enweil irombrozians were replaced by pro-riombarans one, leading the realm to assimilate itself into Riombara. After the treaties expired, Enweil renewed aggressions. There was some fighting in Hetland, as Enweil was abusing its non-reciprocal right of passage to defend Bara'Khur (Hetland neither remebered that the treaty they signed allowed Enweil freedom of passage nor the expiry date of the non-aggression clause). The whole lot of western realms were now busy in new wars, they could not come intervene as before. Then Enweil ended up renewing the attacks on Riombara. Alluran played the same game at first, and then declared war on Enweil. Enweil pushed a little into Riombara, but then blitzed Alluran, as they were by far the weakest link. The duo had won some victories at first, but the damage that Enweil had caused to DoA was great enough that they were gaining a definite upper hand. On the final push, Enweil was close to Alluran's capital of Eno with a vastly superior army, sacking everything. Then the invasion was declared, and Enweil decided best to pull back and let everyone conserve their strength for the invaders to come. Alluran and Rio decided, however, to attack the straggling troops, earning them their last victory. All in all, the number of times Riombara pushed the attack onto the Enweilian front can be counted on the fingers of a hand. Even when the battles were "victories" for Riombara and DoA, they occured in DoA lands, and followed heavy looting by Enweil forces. After Riombaran "victories", the Enweilians were just as strong while the Riombarans and Allurites were much weaker. The reserves Riombara had made while Enweil was fighting the west had also ran out by the beginning of the invasion. This is, as Enweil's general during all this time, my account of the wars. -Chénier 20:22, 28 October 2010 (CEST)

The Glory of Enweil is not a reliable source. As an Irombrozian intimately involved in all the southern theater, I cannot comment on the northern fronts, though Enweil's ability to fend off attacks was astonishingly good. Their southern performance is exaggerated, however. Though early in the war they had some good victories over Riombara, by the time of Irombrozia's surrender Riombara and DoA had soundly established themselves as the practically unthreatened owners of the south. Avalon did little against Riombara, Irombrozia was never a major threat; more of an annoyance. The early war under Anselm went well for Enweil, the later war after the battle in Ardmore when Ardmore sceeded to Irombrozia was all downhill. Enweil's CS progressively declined, contrary to Chénier's report, with each "peak" lower than the previous one, while Riombara and its allies had progressively higher peaks (especially Riombara, as the income of Irombrozia was incorporated into it). The last battle that Chénier speaks of, if we are thinking of the same one, was not against fleeing Enweilians, but against a quite large army that had reinforcements still arriving. Enweil had an upper hand for a while, but by the time of the Invasion, with Riombara able to concentrate itself westwards and Irombro retaken, the matter was practically settled. It was like the Great War, except Luz de Bia not on Enweil's side, Avalon weaker, and Plergoth not as fickle. Vellos 21:59, 28 October 2010 (CEST)

The Glory of Enweil is just as reliable as the Riombaran Herald. Both speak only of their victories and shrug off losses. I'm not hiding this is what I did in the Glory of Enweil, but you'd be a hypocrite to claim that's not what the Herald did too. How is our performances exaggerated? Do you deny that Riombara was down to Grehk and maybe one or two regions without any infrastructure before the west attacked? I was general, I led and planned all these attacks. You were in Irombrozia at the time, don't judge Avalon's involvement. It was occasional but VERY decisive. They gave us the tie-breaker that gave us to momentum to crush Riombara. You also underestimate Irombrozia's role, despite being in it. Perhaps you didn't think much of yourselves, but the distraction you caused *did* allow us much greater leeway. Also, the reports of Rio's strength peaking are very confined in a set period of time. Also, I don't know if you tracked the food supply line: that was one of my focuses, and I can tell you Riombara was just about to starve again, they were holding out on stocked food. And you are a fool if you think DoA had any control: tell me where the battle took place. Whether it was because the forces were retreating or because reinforcements were cancelled, the result was the same, you fought what would have otherwise been a much larger force. And *every* battle that occurred against DoA and Rio occurred deeper and deeper in their lands. The food supply was dropping drastically, as well as the income and available soldiers. Enweil was starving its enemies on food, gold, and soldiers, and it was working wonders and was about to bear great success. The loss of Irombrozia was sad, but they had played their part and sealed their own fate by willingly giving up when we had alternatives for them. You weren't a general, so likely you are basing yourself on your own realm's propaganda. Yes, I'll admit to many defeats that went unspoken of in the Glory of Enweil, but our economy remained strong while the economy of its foes crashed during the wars. And I remember the last battle quite well: I had ordered the retreat myself, despite how it made me angry that I was abandoning an easy victory and how furious I was when the southern realms abused my good will, despite the beginning of the invasion, to strike at those who hadn't gotten the orders in time. You'd be a fool if you claimed Riombara wasn't about to die when the western realms ganged up on Enweil. -Chénier 22:32, 28 October 2010 (CEST)

I remember one engagement in Lopa which Enweil won (which is mentioned in the Herald btw...), and its attack on DoA right before half their army suicided into the Southern one. The rest of the large battles were largely Riombaran victories. Uptill March, Enweil had the edge, after that everything went downhill for them. Ceorl 13:01, 29 October 2010 (CEST)

I'm getting the opinions and perspective of people who were not involved in the military planning and people who've proven to be quite bad at it. Forgive me if I stand convinced of my own interpretation of events. And really, if you only consider the outcomes of individual battles (victory vs. defeat), then no wonder you make a horrible general. War is more than just tactics, it's logistics. It's irrelevant to count the number of victories because Riombara fled every time Enweil's full armies arrived. The damage wasn't done in the battles that occurred, but in the battles that didn't. All the indicators: region count, infrastructure count, food supply, gold per noble, these are the ones you would have to look at to know who was winning. You don't seem to realize that Enweil could have sent endless waves again and again and again to suicide on your walls if it wanted to. Riombara was about to break under the pressure anyways. They were an inch from death when the western gang-bang occurred, and DoA was approaching that breaking point as well (though not yet Riombara, they would have lasted months still probably) when the invasion started. -Chénier 17:32, 29 October 2010 (CEST) Btw, I remember these attacks. Not the best performances we've ever pulled off, but they were kamikazee attacks. Your victories were against small numbers of troops (far from our mobile might of 20000-25000CS) who were deep behind enemy lines ruining Alluran investments. Alluran had invested in some food-producing regions we had hurt, so we spared some soldiers to go ruin the investment (it doesn't take much). As I said, the battle might have said you were "victorious", but when the battle always occurs in your regions, except for a few (and REALLY SHORT) incursions, then you are losing. -Chénier 17:36, 29 October 2010 (CEST)

Kutusov. Your argument was?vonGenf

Game, set, match for good historical references. Vellos 18:47, 30 October 2010 (CEST)

Perspective

I'd like to ask, from what perspective is the Beluaterran Observer written? Who is the author and where is it published? --Aerywyn 16:25, 29 October 2010 (CEST)

I think the point of creating another account for it was to remain anonymous. ;) -Chénier 17:32, 29 October 2010 (CEST)

Heh, thats an answer. I was generally asking if there was any IC information about where the writer was from and how we came to read the paper. Special circumstances, what with the daimons and baby monsters roaming around and all. --Aerywyn 19:12, 29 October 2010 (CEST)

I'm just saying, any hint to an origin would suggest a certain bias and hurt the goal of impartiality. I assume the newspaper was spread anonymously, but the author will likely come and clarify this soon. -Chénier 19:36, 29 October 2010 (CEST)

Yes, the editors will remain anonymous indefinitely, not only so that information keeps coming to them, but because this way they can be sure their overactive quill wont get their realm in tight spot, or as Chénier says, perceived as bias towards a particular realm. Somehow, the editors find ways to see a copy of the paper finds its way to the popular clubs and manors of the nobility. Beluaterran Observer 20:21, 29 October 2010 (CEST)