Talk:The Fronen Commentator/Edition:3

Heh, side with Avalon and turn against RoF? Well that's a rather interesting turn of events... -Chénier 22:13, 9 February 2007 (CET)

Ah, Fronen assaulting Fwuvoghor... mind giving those of us fully expecting the republic never to be the same again a date for the attack? --Widfara Exiled

Um... I believe Fronen were the ones who terminated the alliance... RoF closed borders, but if you look at all the events of the past few weeks, it's been Fronen repeatedly lowering relations, step by step, piece by piece. Vellos 01:26, 10 February 2007 (CET)

Fronen just isn't the same without it's pure likes of us! ;) -Chénier 01:35, 10 February 2007 (CET)

See Vellos, I told you that the rebels were the only line of defense up in the north. Now that the protectors are gone, the beast has been released and is now on the hunt of the weak morsels.

And I find it a slap in the face that Fronen did that...make an alliance with Avalon, I trademarked that, but it didn't go through the buro department -_- ---Bakos 9:05 (EST) February 2007

Weak morsels? They and their lapdogs are heading into Enweil as we speak. If they're looking for a brawl, we'll give them one. -Pizarro 03:25, 13 February 2007 (CET)

Well even though Fronen may have the strength...the real question now is: Do they have the coordination to do succeed?

And with that whole preaching of how RoF is bad, not good, especially for a realm as big and supposedly honored as high as they are. If anything, they should try to negotiate with safe passage through RoF, and keep military brute force on the back burner. ---Bakos 14 February 2007 11:06 (EST)

"Do they have the coordination to do succeed". Seing the report from their coalition force's battle against Enweil, they do not. Quite amusing, really. -Chénier 18:09, 14 February 2007 (CET)

Whoo! Go Enweil! ScottSabin 18:16, 14 February 2007 (CET)

Perhaps they figured that they still had a chanced to win. After all, there was no clear winner in Fengen this morning... hahaha. Also, Julma Jaune was kind enough to have himself killed by Duke Antonio of Fengen. That 600 gold will be helpful to rebuild the walls. But don't beat yourselves up too hard, nobles of Avalon, Old Grehk, Fronen and Thalmarkin. At least you managed to gain a crushing victory in Ulallo... HAHAHAHAAAAA. -Pizarro 18:28, 14 February 2007 (CET)

And the funny thing out of this whole thing...they claim that they've done better since the whole rebellion. Whoop de doo...you made an alliance with Avalon-good job! You beat me to it you bums >: D

Besides that I don't see anything else to be worthy enough to proclaim "improvising." ---Bakos 14 February 2007 2:04 (EST)

Huge Battle Fought (18 hours, 9 minutes ago)

Rumours spread and tales are sung about a huge battle in Fengen:

Avalon, Fronen, Old Grehk, Thalmarkin vs. Enweil

Estimated combat strengths: 35000 CS vs. 27000 CS

Now, 12 hours later...

Defender Victory!

Wow, I don't like Enweil, but I still find this rather amusing. Very amusing, in fact. -Chénier 00:15, 15 February 2007 (CET)

But still, if it takes 4 armies to try and outnumber them and they can't take Enweil out, I feel that they deserve it. As long as they don't come after us, then go Enweil go! --- Bakos 14 February 2007 6:50 (EST)

Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't it the Pro-Enweil Faction that took over Plergotht hat you're fighting against? -(Alex)

Yes, but I enjoy seeing you all beat eachother up. Got nothing to lose by having the east crippled now, do we? And besides, quite a bit of fun to watch. -Chénier 03:53, 15 February 2007 (CET)

CCA politics are muddled on this point, so we all have different views on Enweil. On the one hand, RoF and Irombrozia have excellent relations with Enweil, and want Enweil to thrive. On the other hand, Vlaanderen and Khthon, especially Vlaanderen, have reason to feel animosity for Enweil. I have no idea where Heen stands. So really... while Vlaanderen and Khthon are anti Enweil, or at least fighting a pro-Enweil faction, it is my personal hope they will come around and have peace with Enweil, and coexist. Vellos 05:48, 15 February 2007 (CET)

I somewhat doubt it. Vlaanderen and Khthon are probably encouraged by the 4 northeastern realms to keep Plergoth busy, so they can't help Enweil. If you can't win in honorable war, you have to resort to backdoor tactics, I guess. -Pizarro 06:20, 15 February 2007 (CET)

You do know that Plergoth actually called to Enweil for aid against Vlaandeeren and Khthon? besides which, prior to the takeover, which had dark hints of black magic surrounding it, Plergoth was actually at war with Enweil. --The1exile 12:36, 15 February 2007 (CET)

Well hopefully if this whole war with Plergoth gets over with, then you'll probably have a select few people in Vlaanderen strive for joining their CCA brethren and seeing Enweil prosper ;) ---Bakos 15 February 2007 5:41 (EST)

I see...threatening RoF with the whole "Fronen will avenge his torture" speech. Apothes got what he deserved, especially when a big realm such as Fronen itself would stoop down to threatening to steamroll over such a small realm as RoF. And you call them dishonorable...hmmm, I wonder why >: D ---Bakos 28 February 2007 7:25 (EST)

Apothes was a blackmarket thief, he's lucky he didn't get his right hand cut off. ---Hyral 28 Februrary 2007 4:26 (CET)

In fact, Fronen did not threaten to 'steamroll' Fwuvoghor before Fwuvoghor declared war. Fronen clearly stated to Riombara that even as it was obvious that Fwuvoghor wanted to attack Riombara, even after the Fwuvoghor-Enweil treaty became known, even then they would not attack Fwuvoghor without Fwuvoghor being clearly the aggressor. Fronen and Riombara have a defensive alliance, same as Avalon and Riombara. It was pointed out to Fwuvoghor that if they attack Riombara, those alliances would be activated. Fwuvoghor /knew/ that their declaration against Riombara would result in Avalon and Fronen becomming their enemies, plus a very probable Old Grehk. I also gave my word of honour that Riombara had /no/ hostile intentions against Fwuvoghor before they attacked...so the current war Fwuvoghor finds itself in is solely the making of Fwuvoghors leaders. They knew what they were getting their realm into, to stand up now and claim 'poor small realm being attacked' is...well.../now/ Fwuvoghor will likely get steamrolled...to me it looks like Fwuvoghors leaders are willing to sacrifice their realm to buy Irombrozia some time, nothing more TanSerrai 09:31, 1 March 2007 (CET)

Still I think its a bit overkill to have three realms such as Fronen, Avalon,a and Riombara to even think of ganging up on RoF. If anything, Riombara should start acting like the grown-up it should and fend off the wolves it attracted on its own. The only reason Fronen and Avalon should be there is only for making sure it doesn't get too ugly. ---Bakos March 2 2007 6:00 (EST)

eh...fending off wolves we attracted on our own? That takes a serious effort to negate facts... Especially in the case of Fwuvoghor...their attack is due to solely a personal decision by its rulers. Riombara never gave any offense to Fwuvoghor, we always wanted them as allies. But Fwuvoghor decided to negate an alliance, and to attack. No problem there, but the result was clearly laid out and known to Fwuvoghor before they declared war. Whining _now_ about 'ganging up on poor, small innocent Fwuvoghor'....maybe needs pointing out that if you attack someone, there might be a reaction? What do you want? To be capable of attacking someone, then to declare it fair that noone should react to the attack, preferably including the attacked realm? And anything else should be declared 'ganging up'? Enlighten me...

My standpoint on "ganging up on" is having three realms that are at least two sizes larger (Avalon and Fronen probably three) who have about tenfold the size of the aggressors CS, and figure "oh they attacked realm XY, we should help out"

Honestly, why can't Riombara just fend for themselves and show that they do have a backbone, instead of having to call to their allies for help. The only reason Fronen and Avalon should be there is for "defensive-purposes only" if the war goes bad. Otherwise, they should avoid it all together.

You could say the same about Enweil. You could say the same to RoF, who actually were helping Riombara in defense only, until they chose treachery instead.

Maybe they decided that Riombara was the only way of expansion. Plus if you think of it, Riombara was attacking their fellow CCA ally...

'Their fellow CCA ally': 1) Riombara and RoF were allied. Later RoF allied itself to Irombrozia. Then Irombrozia declared war against Riombara and attacked. Usually, a realm allied to both sides either helps the attacked party, or stays neutral. But RoF chose to dissolve their older alliance and to attack their former ally. 2) Riombara was not attacking their fellow CCA member. It was the other way round and instead of honouring a defensive alliance RoF chose to side with the attacker. You will find few realms who find this way of honouring an alliance acceptable - or want to all with someone like that. And pray tell me, where do you get the idea that a defensive ally should not honour the alliance just because the aggressor is smaller? So if you are a small realm, and you know about the defensive alliances of the larger realm you want to attack...would it not be logical to simply not attack? But no, they attack and _then_ complain about larger realms taking a dim view about that attack? Also note that Fwuvoghor did ally themselves with Enweil, and part of that agreement was that Enweil lends part of their army to Fwuvoghor with the only aim to take land of Riombara. You yourself state that Fwuvoghor 'sees Riombara as way of expansion' - so if a small realm is both treacherous and expansionistic _and_ knows_ the alliance system it chose to go up against, then it should be rewarded by not being attacked in return? What does Fwuvoghor expect? Us to hand them our lands, congratulating them on their honesty, on the fact that they are small and on the way they honour their alliances?

Bottomline: I have no problem with RoF attacking - happens all the time. But I find it really astonishing that they aparently honestly try to view themselves as the 'wronged' party, expect to be left alone, see it as unfair that ageold alliances and friendships are not dissolved simply because they'd like them to be - and because they are a smaller realm. TanSerrai 12:03, 3 March 2007 (CET)