Talk:Repository of Knowledge/Monsters/Enweil
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I absolutely *love* how you censored your own messages out of the exchanges. I sure do wonder what you offered the monsters. Likely regions and gold in exchange of attacking Enweil and leaving Riombara alone, which they did. -Chénier 12:58, 3 November 2010 (CET)
Feel free to ask the monsters player OOC if you feel I censored anything here :) Ceorl 13:10, 3 November 2010 (CET)
Don't need to, I know the monsters don't just write to random unmeaningful people for the fun of it, they reply to them. You only presented one side of the conversation, and even that hints that you offered them plenty. -Chénier 13:30, 3 November 2010 (CET)
- After the defeat of Alluran Riombara fought on, then surrendered when pushed back to Grehk. Note that the monsters initially wanted everything south of Avengmil _and_ a federation with Riombara against Enweil. Riombara declined and fought on. When forced to surrender it handed Irombro, Rueffilo and Rii (plus I think Bym) to the monsters in exchange for neutrality. The main reason the monsters accepted our surrender instead of wiping us out was that (as they said) they honoured our comitment to our allies and our fighting tenacity. No deal was struck, hinted at or talked about that would be aimed against Enweil from the Riombaran side. Chenier, we all know that you percieve Riombara as the embodiment of everything evil, but this is getting a bit far towards senselessness. Note that Riombara repeatedly wanted to cooperate with Enweil, and still (more or less) does. The main hindrance (beside the fact that Riombara currently faces over 30000 CS in mobile monsters attacking every single region except Grehk) is one enweilian noble who perceives everything we do as absolutely evil and as aimed against Enweil while at the same time his own actions are automatically the shining example of honour, nobility and the one and only possible course. Is it truly so difficult to believe that other points of view exist? Ask yourself, do you truly believe that every opinion not completely in line with your own is automatically wrong, evil, insidious and a lie?TanSerrai 13:14, 3 November 2010 (CET)
- TanSerrai, you misunderstand me. While your Chancellor was trying to fight the monsters, this *one* noble kept negotiating with them to get peace instead. And with some supporters, he managed to block a few things, and eventually founded a realm for the monster allies himself. I'm not saying Riombara is hiding stuff, I'm saying Mordred is. Note, though, that Enweil has offered peace to Rio many times, it was only accepted lately. It also offered DoA aid, but they never accepted to sign a ceasefire. And when both of our realms agreed to fight the monsters, Enweil never quit, it's Riombara who pulled back on her commitment. Riombara is a historical annoyance, but not the greater evil. When you accuse someone of secret dealings and go on to do the very same, that's just called hypocrisy, and that's what this guy does 24/7. -Chénier 13:25, 3 November 2010 (CET)
- 2 wrongs in your last statement: Mordred was tasked _by Riombara_ to arrange a ceasefire with the monsters after Alluran was defeated. Riombara knew that it could not stand against the monsters alone...and unless Enweil we were unwilling to ally with any 'evil' faction. The first 2 ceasefires were rejected, Riombara fought on, the third was accepted....which included Riombara _not_ fighting against Enweil as the monsters initially wanted. All of this was in the open. Thus no secret dealings there as you accuse. Next: Aye, Riombara pulled out...after being near completely defeated. We faced the vast majority of the monsters (as Enweil did not at that time). And we once again declared war against the monsters (_before_ the third Archon appeared in Riombara), knowing that we would have very little chance of survival against the monsters. So again you accusation is moot. So while Enweil allies with the daimons, 'suggests' to the monsters to attack the south as you have done, you accuse Riombara of shady dealings, double standards and weakness before the enemy? And you are suprised that your opinion is seen as seriously skewed? If you and Mordred want to indulge in your various accusations that is fine, but the fallout you are producing which paints everything even remotely connected as dark, darker, darkest is not gaining you credibility at allTanSerrai 14:14, 3 November 2010 (CET)
- Intelligence indicated that not everything was out in the open. Some of it was, but not all of it. Enweil also had Fengen sieged for a long time, Netherworld not being able to help. Seemed as if we would die. But even then we didn't abandon our commitment, we never even hinted to the monsters we'd want a truce. And yes Riombara re-declared war after a very long time, but that doesn't mean it did much until the servants appeared. Riombara also never declared war on the monster's allies, undermining it's credibility when it says it will fight the monsters. -Chénier 16:49, 3 November 2010 (CET)
- 2 wrongs in your last statement: Mordred was tasked _by Riombara_ to arrange a ceasefire with the monsters after Alluran was defeated. Riombara knew that it could not stand against the monsters alone...and unless Enweil we were unwilling to ally with any 'evil' faction. The first 2 ceasefires were rejected, Riombara fought on, the third was accepted....which included Riombara _not_ fighting against Enweil as the monsters initially wanted. All of this was in the open. Thus no secret dealings there as you accuse. Next: Aye, Riombara pulled out...after being near completely defeated. We faced the vast majority of the monsters (as Enweil did not at that time). And we once again declared war against the monsters (_before_ the third Archon appeared in Riombara), knowing that we would have very little chance of survival against the monsters. So again you accusation is moot. So while Enweil allies with the daimons, 'suggests' to the monsters to attack the south as you have done, you accuse Riombara of shady dealings, double standards and weakness before the enemy? And you are suprised that your opinion is seen as seriously skewed? If you and Mordred want to indulge in your various accusations that is fine, but the fallout you are producing which paints everything even remotely connected as dark, darker, darkest is not gaining you credibility at allTanSerrai 14:14, 3 November 2010 (CET)
- I have to interrupt on that point regarding DoA. Chenier, it was after hearing about the open deals that Chancellor Alex Kidd had made with the Beasts (the battle, some land and food in return for the Beasts going to other lands south i.e. DoA and Riombara) and after Eno had been breached with most of DoA's army destroyed that Enweil offered aid. It's like kicking someone in the gonads then offering them a hand up and being surprised when they spit at your feet. --Aerywyn 14:31, 3 November 2010 (CET)
- Wrong. It's after the first battles, yes, but before Eno was breached. The Glory of Enweil records the refusal of a peace offer on the 10th of july, an offer that was sent at least a day or two beforehand (your ruler got wounded, the delays between replies, and the delay to get published). On the 17th DoA capitulated, but there were many close battles before then. When Enweil sent the offer on about the 8th of july, Eno had not been defeated (and likely not even attacked) yet. DoA never accepted to sign peace, and this before it was clear they were dead. It was too proud and arrogang to secure its own survival. -Chénier 16:49, 3 November 2010 (CET)
- TanSerrai, you misunderstand me. While your Chancellor was trying to fight the monsters, this *one* noble kept negotiating with them to get peace instead. And with some supporters, he managed to block a few things, and eventually founded a realm for the monster allies himself. I'm not saying Riombara is hiding stuff, I'm saying Mordred is. Note, though, that Enweil has offered peace to Rio many times, it was only accepted lately. It also offered DoA aid, but they never accepted to sign a ceasefire. And when both of our realms agreed to fight the monsters, Enweil never quit, it's Riombara who pulled back on her commitment. Riombara is a historical annoyance, but not the greater evil. When you accuse someone of secret dealings and go on to do the very same, that's just called hypocrisy, and that's what this guy does 24/7. -Chénier 13:25, 3 November 2010 (CET)
Accusations aside, the real interesting item (both to me as player and to my character) is whether the central human powers of Enweil, Bara'Khur (plus possibly Fronen) will prefer to keep allied with one of the 'evil' factions or ally with the temples of light. I am having a _load_ of fun on Beluaterra right now....interesting times indeed.TanSerrai 16:38, 3 November 2010 (CET)
- Enweil and her allies will do what they think is right for the survival of mankind. At the moment, forgive us for being skeptical about a weapon that only works within the radius of Daishi, Hemaist, and Qyrvagg influence and that allows greater inhuman reinforcements as being the solution to our problems. -Chénier 16:49, 3 November 2010 (CET)
