Talk:Arcaea/Military Archives/The War of Sartania's Destruction

"Instantly a devastating success"? The first attack on Niel was a draw. --Roy 06:41, 15 September 2010 (UTC)

I could say this is what Caim remembers of the war... but I do know that I arrived a turn early and got slaughtered. The following battle saw this Arcaea/Military Archives/A Feast in Niel, which were the same circumstances as Topenah where the infantry managed to get onto the walls fast enough due to a large number of siege engines that the fortifications were not nearly as effective.--Aerywyn 06:50, 15 September 2010 (UTC)

I was the Duke of Niel at that time. I believe 3 battles have been fought, the first a draw and the second and third were a victory for Arcaea. We had lvl 5 walls, and I am sure the CS displayed in "A Feast in Niel" is not true, neither from Arcaea nor Sartania. However, I can not prove anything, as it are just memories, but I can say with 99% certainty that the first battle in Niel was a draw, and that the numbers of CS are false. That aside, I am not a Arcaean historian, and you may write whatever you want. If you wish to write to have tricked us with a Trojan Horse, be my guest. However, a little accuracy probably won't harm a good story. --Roy 15:54, 15 September 2010 (UTC)

Actually, the CS numbers are true. I remember, because I was writing a letter to demand the General to step down for attacking with such odds, and waited until turn so I could post the casualties we took in the failed assault...And couldn't believe my eyes when I saw we won. We ended up having something like 1 SE per 8 men or something like that, and the walls ended up providing almost no defense. I went and talked to Tim about it because I thought for sure it was a bug, but he checked the battle and the code and said it looked fine. I don't remember which attack that was, though. Shwartzring 23:34, 15 September 2010 (UTC)

It was the second attack. Like I said, the first attack involved my unit alone arriving early and getting slaughtered. That is the best of what I remember, whilst the second assault was a great cause for Arcaean pride because we managed to take the walls with an almost equal force to the defenders. Topenah and Niel are a testament to how walls don't matter if your enemy has the sense to have enough siege engines. It really is something that people should take on board more often. Anyway Roy, I do remember you being Duke of Niel since your General Nina in PoZ told me about that time that finishing off Sartania would be a nasty thing to do. As such I do have to take your word into account when casting my own thoughts, but unfortunately Matt here agrees with what I remember and no Sartania history of Niel's fall has yet been written by the Sartanians. --Aerywyn 04:52, 16 September 2010 (UTC)

You remember me being the Duke of Niel because Nina told you not to attack Niel? And which of your characters did Nina tell not to attack Niel? I don't know any more. But about the downfall of Niel, there is a little written on my family page.. "The ware raged on, and Arcachon decided to finish it. And as they could not defeat us by themselves, they called the aid of Arcaea. Niel was assaulted, and the Sartanians stood brave and honourably in its defence. And upon the next dawn, there was no victory for either side. But the Sartanian defence could no longer hold the walls in the battles to come. Niel fell, and with it Sartania" --Roy 12:59, 16 September 2010 (UTC)

Arcachon attacked alone at least once (or with one or two Arcaeans in the area), but the first time Jenred gave the order for our forces to attack, the city fell. Shwartzring 21:01, 16 September 2010 (UTC)

I can't bring myself to change the history to include that when I already feel that the first opinion is the correct one. That aside I'm perfectly happy to have two different histories i.e. for the Sartanians and yours to include what they think happened. As for General Nina, she contacted Lord Protector Aerywyn on hearing that Arcaea planned to finish off Sartania. Aerywyn in turn found out that Nina and Roberd were from the same family, so was not surprised at the message. At the end of the day there were a few Arcaeans who wondered whether it was entirely just or worthwhile to finish off Sartania when they were performing so well against Arcachon, but Hyrus Kartark (I think he was the Pontifex at the time) had already insulted Arcaea too much for them to just back down. Jenred showed the messages to the realms council and later the whole realm. I'm saying this last part because I thought it would be interesting to know. At the end of the day the feeling was that Arcaean-Sartanian history has always been about trying to eliminate the other, even if Aerywyn toyed witht he idea of what it would have been like were matters different. --Aerywyn 07:13, 17 September 2010 (UTC)

It wasn't that he insulted Arcaea, it was when he stated that if/when he had the diplomatic clout to gather enough allies to attack us, he would. Jenred took that as a violation of the peace treaty and an indication that Sartania could not be trusted at our backs. Of course, no one believed that was the real reason since Jenred waited until it made sense militarily to order the attack, but that's what it was. Shwartzring 07:36, 17 September 2010 (UTC)

Well... insult, threat, thats what I meant. There was also the thing about Sartanian priests violating part of the treaty. But yeah, the whole "we'll crush you once we get an alliance going" is a bad diplomatic move on his part. --Aerywyn 09:02, 17 September 2010 (UTC)

There is no point in lying here, for Sartania itself is already history. So yes, there were talks with I believe Ethilia. But if I understood right, it was Ethilia who tried to gather friends in their attempt to destroy Arcaea. And Hyrus did go along with this, we promised our support however we also told them we had our hands full with Arcachon. That might be the only violation of the peace-treaty Sartania made. And our priests remained in Sartanian territory. On the other hand, Arcaea wasn't that chivalrous as you display them, as we grew weary of the Arcaean infiltrators that attacked our lands. And that was a violation of the peace treaty as well. --Roy 09:26, 18 September 2010 (UTC)

Hyrus sent a letter to the Rulers as part of an ongoing spat he had with Jenred about Jenred refusing to let Sartanian traders through saying a number of things that were vaguely insulting and concluded by saying that he wished he had the allies and troops to destroy Arcaea, and that if he did he would. Jenred interpreted that as "if I had the power to break our treaty and win, I would" and decided he needed to remove a potential threat. That's really all there was to it. I've never pretended OOC that Jenred is anything other than a crazy sociopath with a /very/ idiosyncratic sense of honour and delusions of being the Chosen One, and I don't see any point in lying about something like this OOC. As for Arcaean infiltrators...The only ones that got reported to me /did/ get punished. Sure, there were probably a bunch that never got caught, but since I never heard about them, wasn't much I could do. Shwartzring 21:11, 18 September 2010 (UTC)

I'll agree that Arcaean infiltrators were marauding in foreign lands if you agree that at least one Sartanian priest decided to rile the people in Orbeh. Ok, I jest, Swartzring knows better than I but there is scarcely a doubt in hell that there was an Arcaean infiltrator attacking someone at somepoint in all of Arcaea's history. Nasty vigilante types they generally are. You should hear some of the stories of what they do to try and please Jenred at times... of course someone should tell them that causing diplomatic headaches is not a good way to make your King happy. I recall seeing a letter sent to Ethiala and the rest of Arcaea's neighbours from Sartania about stopping Arcaea before she gets too big and crushing her. There may have been another one and rulers don't always make the little deals they try to make public, so trying to validate what everyone thinks on it is going to be hard. Anyway, sometimes it is much easier for everyone who comes along later to be conflicting versions of the history as they help build some sense of IC mystery and bias which doesn't necessarily have to be exempt for everyone to be both informed and to have fun. For example, I remember digging through all of Greater Aenilia's history and finding out that though most of it glorifies Orphen and Luyten, you can piece together from a few players from Taith Aenil and Ethialian newspapers that Orphen and Luyten weren't very honourable at all. Of course as for Taith Aenil you can just speculate on how they really were, but knowing at least one of the players I can't doubt that the stories about them being bloodthirsty are not true.

So as a final note - encourage Sartania to write up her own history that completely puts Arcaea in a bad light! The relations between the two realms have always been absolutely well... abominable. Even at this high-point in relations the history still seems to avoid at least saying anything nice about Arcaea, and to be frank I'd be a little freaked out if it did.--Aerywyn 09:54, 18 September 2010 (UTC)

We have both experienced the same history from two different sides, that probable makes up for two different 'truths'. Concerning the priest in Orbeh, I am not sure. I am trying to remember if Selene was already a priest during that time (she has done many things I never agreed with), as besides her I was the only other priest of the Church of Sartan. But are we talking about bath-mouthing or merely preaching? As I am certain we were allowed to preach there, as Madellena was the lord of the region when she 'betrayed' Sartania. But she wished to remain faithful to Sartan or something and tried to justify her actions with some nice words and so on.. Besides that, I do love the old Sartania, but I am not going to write history, my English is just not good enough for that, causing it to take too much time. --Roy 10:26, 18 September 2010 (UTC)

Interesting, it probably was just preaching then (I was firebrand when I played Aerywyn, so it was likely I was one of the ones blowing it out of proportion for the sake of old hostilities) after Madelena had said something about properly converting to the MAE along with Tenal. It is all fairly hazy. What I do remember though was that Selene only really became a priest after Niel fell. I remember her rping being a crazy Sartanian prophet sort of thing. Which is really ironic because my first major character, the staunchest of Arcaean supporters, avenged one of the Octavius family members when they were slain in a duel. Poor Aerywyn died in the act of avenging... --Aerywyn 11:51, 18 September 2010 (UTC)

Isn't that what we all do? Making a big deal out of little things to cause more hatred for our enemy? To make them look bad and us good? It is nice to talk about the old days. --Roy 13:25, 18 September 2010 (UTC)