Talk:Carelia Times/Issue 8

Smashing the Carelian propaganda widget

As usual, the Carelian propaganda machine is lacking in both reason and truth. I will personally address some of the more glaringly conceited fallacies.

If kronos is stupid as the authors suggest and kronos is masterfully handing Abington defeat after defeat what exactly does that make the ruler of Abington?

Simply put, intelligence and might are two separate things. And really, ascribing any defeats of Abington -- by four realms -- to the intelligence of Kronos is arrogant, and frankly insulting to those who are doing the bulk of his fighting (namely, Tara, CE and Talerium).

Some may argue that any successes had by Carelia is only due to its allies, you must still credit King Kronos with his masterful diplomatic skill. Knowing who your true allies are and enemies would be, is the mark of a great leader, not how big your stick is.

A traitor may well hand defeat after defeat to those whom he betrays. He may even escape without punishment. This changes nothing about his betrayals, and it doesn't justify dishonour.

Redspan invaded Carelia, after numerous pleas by our humble king, still the invaders attacked, first they kill our militia!

Carelia betrayed, and declared war on, Abington and Redspan both. Since Carelia is amongst the only ones doing "invading," it is nothing but a lie to even call the betrayed "the invaders."

Finally Kronos had to put his friendship with goat lovers in the past and kill the invaders!

Is this more time-travelling? Kronos betrayed that "friendship," then invaded! You are painting a picture of such absurd falsehoods that one wonders if anyone in Carelia is stupid enough to believe such tripe.

Moreover, this Whipe of the map opinion made by the Arch priest, who by the way was imedeatley placed in leadership was not some small comment, it was in a policy debate whether to invade Carelia now, or wait for a better time, let us not kid ourselves here.

No, it was not in a policy debate. Nor was it policy. Perhaps you should check your torture report, or simply get a better analysis of the facts.

As i am sure there are good people in both nations we are to defeat, contact Kronos when your nation no longer exist and you will find a most forgiving king, this by the way is his GREATEST fault he is much to forgiving for my tastes.

Ah, yes -- Abington and Redspan are the "invaders," but you are just now claiming our realms will "no longer exist." I guess you can't even keep your lies straight in the space of paragraphs, no wonder you contradict yourselves over the course of months!

In closing, many of you underestimate our great king because he is has not spoken the common tongue of the noble for so long, you see this as him being dumb, he uses that perception to beat your nations into a bloody pulp.

Kronos's main fault is not his stupidity, but his dishonour, his betrayals, and his inability to perceive or report reality as it is. Carelia, taking credit for their allies' victories? Carelia, claiming victimhood while they are the betrayers? Carelia, whining about a comment made by their Arch Priest, when their current policy is to annihilate not just one realm, but two?

Next time your dealing with him, "think intelligent thoughts, and he is much easier to understand" silly abby leader

There is nothing silly about the truth. Lie all you want; no right-thinking noble believes you, and those who support your "great king" do so only for their own gains in power, wealth and land. Brag all you want about "beating to a pulp" a small realm by four large ones; your minor and temporary victories will never, ever change the truth. Under Kronos, Carelia is a land of dishonour, betrayal and warmongering. House Olik 06:42, 3 August 2007 (CEST)

i will only adress a few issues, since i have not the time to spare at the moment, 1) the Title of the Article is called "In defense of the King" not "in praise of CE , Tallerium, and Tara" no need to tell me how well they are doing, since i have foughten along side many of these brave nobles, From the various lands. 2)it was Redspan who drew first blood, never , ever forget that. While you claim it as war Kronos declared, i call it, raising the alert of the men at arms when he left the federation of Abby and Redspan. He knew you would become hostile so war was declared, and he ended up right didnt he? hostile you both became.But Carelia did not draw first blood. Redspan however did. Zerric Zorrath

1) The title is irrelevant. In your article, you take credit ("kronos handing defeat after defeat" to Abington and Redspan") for what you only had a minor role in. Hubris at it's worst. 2) You can call Kronos's declaration of war whatever you want. You can call conquering foreign cities "liberation" all you want. You can even try to blame Redspan (why not!) for opening hostilities after you declared war. But the facts stand for themselves. Kronos did declare war, on his two closest allies. And now Kronos, by your own admission, wishes to eliminate both those realms from existence. There is simply no way to spin these facts. Under Kronos, Carelia is a betrayer, oath-breaker, back-stabber, dishonourable, and arrogant. Perhaps under another leader, these things can be replaced by more positive truths, but they can never be erased. House Olik 07:25, 3 August 2007 (CEST)

one more thing, Ah, yes -- Abington and Redspan are the "invaders," but you are just now claiming our realms will "no longer exist." I guess you can't even keep your lies straight in the space of paragraphs, no wonder you contradict yourselves over the course of months! which lies exactly? that was your intention as stated by the very ruler of Abby and confirmed by the opening of bloodshed by Redspan, you dont deny either. So now your really arguing that you are losing the war so far (or would it being winning since you again opened hostilities with Carelia invading tarkhog), and therefore somehow Kronos cannot defend his land, and if all goes well, i personally would love to see abby gone, that i admit fully. You promised to whipe us off the map! your leader! not some noble, or peasant. you wished this war, you got a war, it isnt going as nicley for you and Carelia isnt "being whiped off the map" as your leader intended. so with all this information Abby calls Kronos Warmongering and a host of other lies? absurd. Zerric Zorrath

You simply don't understand. Carelia opened hostilities, by declaring war. You really can't seem to even recognize this one fact, can you? Or do you actually expect to declare war, but not see any hostilities? And yet again, you're taking an opinion made by a non-ruler, which you learned only through torture, as a "promise," as "policy," as "intending." Once again, this opinion was made after your realm betrayed and declared war on both Abington and Redspan! Your pathetic attempts at portraying yourselves as the victim when you and three other realms intend - through public policy, admitted policy by the reigning rulers, not off-hand comments learned through torture -- to annihilate two realms are sickening. Then when we fight back, we are "again opening hostilities" and of course, when you capture foreign territory you are "liberating" it.

If you were truly such a great kingdom, you would be displaying honesty here, not lie after lie after lie after lie. But no. Apparently, the truth is so unflattering that you are afraid of it and feel the need to bury it, alongside Redspan and Abington. Well, victors might write the history books, but this war isn't won yet, and your "history" so far is nothing but cheap, trashy propaganda written by an ignorant fool.House Olik 18:56, 3 August 2007 (CEST)

i ask again which planet are you from? tell me this, exactly what war were we having when Redspan Invaded Carelia? or is it your contention that since war was declared in the past that that gives you the right to invade alone? even though peace was made! by that logic any nation whose had a war declaration placed against it could invade any nation at any time and be justified in doing so...is there a time limit to your foolishness? 50 years? 20? 10 days? im curious where you draw the line. you remind me of a bird putting his head in the sand so he doesnt see the truth. Zerric Zorrath August 3, 2007

I am from the same planet as you, the only difference is I am not afraid of any truth. Carelia declared war on Redspan. And Abington. The taking of Tarkhog (for example) is purely a consequence of that act; Kronos's betrayal and declaration of war. Now you attempt to shrug that off as "the past," as if it were ages ago and irrelevant. It is neither. There was no peace made either, merely an uneasy neutrality during which Carelia marshalled her mightier allies and then declared war on Redspan again with the public intention of destroying it as a realm! Kronos's "peace" was nothing more than a mistake of forgiveness upon our parts, which he used every second of to prepare for his war of aggression. You are a fool, Zerric, and all the more so because you clearly do not understand what is a matter of public record, let alone possess the capacity to analyze them with anything remotely resembling reasonableness. You've yet to address even the basic facts, let alone my arguments, while I have been more than indulging with you, treating your porcine squeals as if they were rational arguments. You may not ever recognize it, but this argument, such as it is, is over.House Olik 19:30, 3 August 2007 (CEST)

Carelia Marshalled its forces only after Redspan invaded, again you forget that. your argument is astounding, a declaration of war is firm that but a declaration to cease hostilities is fluid? incredible. I wish you well on your planet sir. Zerric Zorrath August 3, 2007

If a state of neutrality qualifies to you as "declaration to cease hostilities," just what do you make of the fact that Tara and CE currently engage Abington forces, yet are neutral? Seems to me that by your logic, Vengence and Jonathon (now Lister) live on "another planet." The fact remains this is nothing more than a continuation of the war Kronos began, an invasion Kronos and his mighty friends began, and the only policy towards realm-destruction here is held by Kronos and his allies. Now, it's your turn to spin this so that Carelia is the poor, innocent victim, "liberating" territories from Redspan... House Olik 23:53, 3 August 2007 (CEST)