Talk:The Oligarchian Observer/Edition:9
Take a look at Itorunt Informer/May '06. We got over 1150 views for our april publications! Therefore, we win! Muhahahaha! Well, not against both of your papers together, but still. --The1exile 2 May 2006 09:41 (CEST)
TO keep this IC lol..... IF Oligarch had kept true to its word, it would still have a chance. In the past Oligarch broke more than 4 agreements involving peace and other things. If it kept its word, Perdan would assist more, and who knows their forces could match some of Sirion's! Not securing food for the seige, and all those people could be fed if you would surrender. But Oligarch's arrogance for fighting to the death is leading to deaths of thousands of Oligarchians. Which would be better for the remaining citizens? A complete wipeout of the customs of Oligarchians and values, beliefs, etc..., or the lives saved and the war ended. Much of Avamar has left Oligarch spare a few. Why go down like them? When sparing your arrogance of fighting to the death for the lives of 80000 Oligarchians! No butcher is happening, but to let you know, Most of the nobles in Sirion don't wish to see the peasants starve like that. This war will be done with soon whether you guys surrender or take down innocent lives with you. RP Watch this infuriate many people lol muahahahah let the crap fly Dan raymond May 3, 2006 04:32 (CEST)
Actually, Hireshmont, if yopu ever take a look here... Do you think it would be possible for us to put our records on the Records of Battlemaster page? Might be a good place to refer to while throwing mud. Let's see: Most Pathetic Newspaper: the No Space Press. Most ganged up on newspaper: The Itorunt Informer. Paper with the most squirrel commandos: the Oligarch Observer. And, most oblivious paper: The Caligan Courier. What do you think? Oh, and the war isn't over yet... at least not with Caligus, since they will die out soon, it should be really easy to find dirt on them. Alex Exiled/--The1exile 20:37, 3 May 2006 (CEST)
Not much has happend in Oligarch Lately? Seems like you might be in a bit of a stick situation ScottSabin 19:30, 6 May 2006 (CEST)
Widfara headed to Westmoor only to find that he was the only guy there attacking the Fontan and one unit of Sirion troops. How am I supposed to join Oligarch? Plus he's seriously wounded now. That's what you get for being banned from three realms... and counting... --The1exile 23:09, 8 May 2006 (CEST)
IC (Letter from a reader): Twiddling of the Thumbs -
"Ever wondered how Coimbrans felt while they were waiting for their capital to be assaulted by Oligarch, Perdan and Avamar? Now you know. And if Oligarch city was to be taken before Commonyr, you'd also have an idea as to what it feels like to sit in the countryside without troops for days, waiting for something to happen. I wish you all the best for the future, hope your new realm will ease your suffering. It never eased mine...
With high respect:
Sir Adam, former Coimbran soldier, friend of Tod, Duke of Westmoor, future king of the Kingdom of Coimbra"
- Nylen 00:15, 18 May 2006 (CEST)
Every day I think of Coimbra's death, it is very saddening. However, with the death of Oligarch, many past wrongs can be made right again...as we bury the past in hopes of a better future. Soon, Most of the Island will enjoy Peace...something that has not existed in the East Island for a bit over FIVE long years! -Doc
Yes, I have sympathy for Coimbra. To be backstabbed by your own allies at the very last, its a pity really. Wish you luck, hope you die! -Hireshmont Vellos 13:20, 18 May 2006 (CEST)
Coimbra didn't backstab Oligarch, Hireshmont! Ignorant fool. Lysander insulted the Coimbrians, and belittled them. By doing so he alienated the Coimbra/Fontan alliance, and then went as far as to piss Doomgiver off. That is what sparked that war, in case you didn't know. -Doc
What a noble speech good Hiereshmont. It is always a sad thing to see a realm go, especially one so fine as Oligarch. This is only a testament to the utter lack of goodness in the East Continent. --Legatus DeSyrr 00:02, 20 May 2006 (CEST)
Doc, you amuse me. I wasnt referring to Coimbra backstabbing Oligarch, I know very little about that time in history. I was refering to Fontan's seizure of their last region, Viseu I believe? Then I suppose Fontan killed Eleador too, in Montijo wasnt it? I believe COimbra and Fontan were on good terms with each other, so to be so betrayed by a friend is a true pity.Hireshmont Vellos 00:05, 20 May 2006 (CEST)
Fontan taking Coimbra's last region wasn't a 'betrayal' by any means. You should do your research a little better because once again you've only shown us how little you know--and how much you assume. If Fontan betrayed Coimbra, why would Fontan want/plan to bring back Coimbra? You lack even the commonest of senses... -Doc
Fontan betrayed Coimbra, but was for a long time their ally. Plus, Coimbra was doomed anyways, with one region left, and a townsland at that. As such, I can understand why the Coimbrans went to Fontan, a longtime ally, who essentially delt a coup de grace to their realm. Fontan wants to bring them back because of the problems with a large realm. Sirion can handle a large realm, as can Perdan, because of simple geography, especially in SIrion's case. Where Fontan is, such a thing is not nearly so easy. As such, having a stalwart and loyal ally in Westmoor is quite logical. WHo better to place there than a realm with historical backing? COimbra! Plus, you can call on people's memories of alliances, even if you did backstab them in the end. Its a simple propaganda and policy tactic, one I would think you would understand. Hireshmont Vellos 00:55, 20 May 2006 (CEST)
Sorry, mate. You see IF consent is given, it is not a 'betrayal' or 'backstab' as you put it. NO propaganda needed. Coimbra was doomed, no City, just a Townland...a realm without a capital. Much how Oligarch is going to be very soon. Therefore it was a logical move for Coimbra to give up Viseu to Fontan, move many of her TLs there, and wait for a better day. A day where Fontanese forces could bring her back...that is what you call trust. Think of it as this, Choose to save the Baby(future) rather than the Mother (Past). -Doc
Well, be that as it may, I find Sirion amusing right now. You waited for vastly greater odds fighting us than you did against Avamar. I believe that you could try and explain that away with various ways, but I think that, deep down inside, you and your entire realm is afraid of us. I've seen your realm conversations, your unnaturally wary of us, like you're afraid of something. Rather funny really. I understand why, of course. Hireshmont Vellos 04:16, 20 May 2006 (CEST)
We don't write our history in Blood, Hireshmont. So yes, the mild-mannered Sirionites are rather fearful for their lives...one mistake...and they'll end up on the pages of Oligarch's History Books: literally. -Doc
Well, I must say, Doc. Congradulations. Another realm destroyed in the name of peace. After killing, in all former Oligarchian lands, about 50,000 to 60,000 peasents, and about that many military personnel, after casuing the deaths of dozens of nobles, you've done it. Vellos 15:11, 20 May 2006 (CEST)
To think, none of those people would have died if only Oligarch had recognized its ineptitude. If they had just let us takeover these lands without battle, and left the island, then these lands would be quite fruitful. Take Ashforth for instance. She looks better than she ever did in Oligarch hands for the past 6 months. Avamar? She looks better than she ever did since she fell out of W.Sirion hands. This is what happens when Sirion takeover a region from Barbarians...or Evil War Lords...the people enjoy peace, and prosperity. Look at Fontan and Krimml. The city was badly damaged from the sieges, but now it serves as her Capital. Soon Westmoor will follow suit. Oligarch City too. Out of the destruction the cave-men of Oligarch brought to the land, the Elves and Evolved Humans of Fontan and Old Rancagua, will bring those poor victims hope, and most importantly: An Education worth fighting for. -Doc
Oh come now Master Doc, really of course Krimml would be damaged after a seige. Of course Avamar City is in better condition now that it isnt under fire. You are comparing cities at a time when they were in harms way to cities when they can grow unopposed. Not only that if you think productivity is justification for war, then I beleive you should stay out of the KI/OR conflict, for my homeland in Kalmar Islands is doing far better domestically than ever before! Does that make it okay to take control of the nation? No! Does a rebuilt city justify brutality, theft, pillage, slaughter of civilians, etcetera? Even fi you could run an area better than the local rulers, do you as a foreigner have the right to take power from the Oligarchians who live there? No!
It is almost always better being poor or unproductive and autonomous than being under the control of foreigners. But ah well, I have power over about 200-some peasants and 8 swordsmen. What am I to do? --Leatus DeSyrr 20:08, 20 May 2006 (CEST)
You all forget that Oligarch City has been a part of the Sirion Empire for a very long time! Not as long as it has been in Oligarch's because we LOST the City, but the pendulem swings. The Sirion Empire is once again complete, only Commonyer is the last region which pertains to us...and Ashforth is going to go to the Old Rancaguans as soon as Oligarch City is stabilized. There is no control of foriegners. These people seek PEACE and FREEDOM. We offer them BOTH at once. Even when Avamar was in Sirion's hands years ago, and under constant siege...she never looked so bad as when the 'realm' of Avamar had her. Oligarch City looks like garbage, and when W.Sirion had it...it was in better shape...meaning it never was hungry. Sirion makes sure her regions are fed, and her people safe. We don't LOOK for war, or make up excuses for it. This is why I respect the--in my opinion--blood-thirsty mindlessness of our enemies in Oligarch. Of all the ANCIENT realms on this Island, only Sirion and Oligarch have NEVER switched sides, and have ALWAYS fought for what each side respectively believed. Now the struggle is over, coexistence was impossible, a peaceful Elven Nation and a Primitive Blood Thirsty One...once again, in the opinion of the articulate Elves. I am in my 50s now, an old man, having spent my entire life trying to reunite the Sirion Empire and bring peace to the North, and eventually to the Island...on this day, we are closer than ever before, and many rulers across the lands share in the vision of Peace and Prosperity. You will all see--if you choose to stay--that peace and NOT spilling blood is ALSO a good thing. Maybe. -Doc
I am not inclined to beleive that anny city under seige will look good, be it Avamar, Oligarch, or hypothetically Sirion. I doubt Sirion would be in good condition should some powerful enemy magically appear to lay seige. Not as if anyone can oppose Sirion now of course, but should that have been plausible, Sirion City would not look so good either. Do not compare a city in wartime to a city in a time of peace. -- Legatus DeSyrr Alex 04:16, 21 May 2006 (CEST)
I'm afraid that a city in PEACE time as you call it (even though Sirion is at war with several nations) is exactly the SAME city during War time--whatever that means by your definition. Fact is, and the Truth remains, that since Sirion took over Avamar...since Fontan took over Krimml...since Old Rancagua took over Kazakh...those regions have enjoyed a prospierty they have not enjoyed in many MONTHS. A prosperity that may remain for many years, in fact. Who knows? Point is, not a single Sirion region has EVER suffered since her existence...well I take that back, Avamar is one such City that suffered greatly long ago, but that City was given to Eleador...which was then given to W.Sirion...which was then returned to Sirion...but aside from Avamar, No other Sirion City has suffered nor passed hands outside the Empire. Oligarch wasn't a good government, the citizens of Oligarch are in deseperate need of Change...for the sake of their happiness. Same for Westmoor and Ashforth. Those citizens don't like war, and are looking forward to the peace that Fontan+Old Rancagua+Sirion can offer them. -Doc
Yes they don't like war, they were looking forward to the brutality with which your forces are taking over Oligarch. --The1exile 10:47, 21 May 2006 (CEST)
Doc you're a liar. Perdanese forces pillaged Sirion city itself. Ashforth was at 145% production when Old Rancaguan forces attacked and were fought to a standstill last... January I believe. Ever since OR got involved, they've had problems. Have you seen the condition their realm has been in recently? Admittedly, I had a tiny bit to do with that, but, still. Utterly inept at rebuilding. In your own words(this is, I think, an exact quote) which I have read from my sources, "Cant they do anything right? Thalanteus stepped down, so they'll have to go through another round of rebellion." I admit, Fontan is a pretty good realm. Sirion is fairly good domestically(I actually did a study a few months back of domestic conditions in various realms, Sirion did excellently on it, though I have lost the report itself since the Burning of Oligarch these past few days). But Old Rancagua... utterly inept. If I can achieve one thing, my one dream, its seeing the Numenorean race eradicated, and all traces of Old Rancagua removed from the continent. Anyways... Vellos 18:53, 21 May 2006 (CEST)
HAHA, Perdan LOOTED Sirion City ONLY because our army was heading in ONE direction, and Perdan came from another. IN Sirion we used to HARDLY ever carry any militia--this has changed because of various wannabe terrorist factions that exist in the world--and they waltzed in virtually unopposed. They looted for ONE turn, and got the hell out, because the straggelers of the Sirion army moved into Sirion, and then Chased those Puny-Mediocore-Wannabes (PMW) out of Sirion City, surrounded them in the flank, and sent them all home in pieces. Do not worry, this was the ONE time they set foot in OUR City, the damage was NO WHERE near permanent--one turn of looting at the hands of 4-5k rarely is--and will PALE in comparison to what we are going to do to Perdan City. So before you resort to calling me a liar, read what I say carefully, so you don't look hollow in the head. The exile brings up a good point, did the people like the Brutality necessary to usher in change? Probably not in the short term, but the long-term effects are CLEARLY evident. -Doc
Prime Minister Doc, I have always thought you to be somewhat intellegent, despite personal distaste for Sirionite imperialism, but truly you sitll do not see what I am trying to tell you. You cantinue to emphasize how much more prosperous Kaazahk, Avamar, Krimml etc in the hands of North Allaince nations. The point I am trying to make is that, should Avamar, Rancagua, Oligarch etc have time to take that city and rebuild they too would be prosperous.
The problem with disarray in these cities is the fact that they were beign starved out through seige. No city regardless of nationality will be much appealing during a seige. Do yu undeerstand? Please do not continue to use examples of prosperous NA cities, for they could and did do well when not faced with invasion.
A good example of this would be my home in the Kalmar Islands. The new government has brought prosperity to the Kalmar Islands that would've been unthinkable under the monarchy. So by your logic prosperity means here should not be any invasion. Perhaps you should tell Old Rancagua to make peace with us? I mean sure the entire rebellion was dishonest and without virtue but what does it matter? For now the islands are prosperous and that is all that matters. So I suppose the 20-some Avamarians and the rest have nothing to fear? I am getting the feeling that you support the idea that "The end justifies the means"
Further, are you delirious Doc? Surely no sane being could possible think peasants enjoy being ravages and pillaged through contant brutal takeovers of their homelands! Is that what you meant by "They were looking forward to the peace" comment? Truly I do not see how dead peasants can look forward to anything. Even those who were merely raped, looted or had their homes and families ruined will have a tough time looking forward to the future. Is that really what you think Master Doc? I shall hope not!
--Legatus DeSyrr 21:14, 21 May 2006 (CEST)
Alex: Doc, you are a failure. Puny-Mediocre-Wanabes? They are actually Perdans Menstrual Whiners. Dont you read the Itorunt Informer? *Shakes head* Honestly.
Widfara: Hireshmont, you neglect to mention that Mutdonter is tearing down the cities assets himself? Nice talent for propaganda you got there... --The1exile 22:12, 21 May 2006 (CEST)
Yes, I rather pride myself in my propaganda talents. But, I can explain that easily. Firstly, recruitment centers are a government military facility, as are the military/industrial forges, scout guilds, etc. All parts of the military/industrial complex are being removed, so as to prevent them from falling into the hands of Sirionite aggressors. Also, no peasents are being harmed in the process. IN FACT, theya re gaining from it. It costs money to destroy those buildings. Why? Quite simple: we HIRE laborers. Even in the chaos of the street-fighting, we use lawful means, and give FAIR WAGES to our citizens to do fair work for the Oligarchian government. Now, about such institutions as caravan shops, well, Mutdonter IS removing them, for an equally simple reason. Various TLs of Oligarch have invested hundreds, if not thousands, of personal, family, money in Oligarch. It would be wrong for the fruits of that personal investment to fall into the hands of Sirionites. As such, Mutdonter is destroying personal property who's primary benefactors would not wish to see them fall into the hands of the Sirionites. Vellos 22:59, 21 May 2006 (CEST)
Thus, further proving that the Oligarchian people never built the cities they live in anyway. They arrived to a land whose occupants mysteriously vanished, and colonized ruins fairly well. It is only logical they would remove what little they built...and further prove to the peasants that there should be absolutely NO memory of a realm named Oligarch ever existing. Such a shame...anything destroyed, can be rebuilt, and be made 10 times better...with peace and prosperity.
On a side note, you forget that Sirion has defended her cities well, and made good friends and allies abroad who share similar beliefs. Oligarch was an Evil nation, and thus, a minority in that respect. She hired few realms to enjoy blood as much as she did, but ultimately, we in Sirion believe PEOPLE to be essentially GOOD...not evil. -Doc
You are sadly misled. I believe people ARE essentially Good. Elves are a different story. Oligarchians built the city of Oligarch, but we will leave the people's personal institutions standing. If we sought to destroy our own city, we would pillage and burn it. We do not. We are dismantling governmental facilities paid for by the government, for the purposes of the military industrial complex which sustained our noble realm against Sirionite oppression for so long. Sirion has indeed defended her cities well, largely because Oligarch is not much of an aggressor. There were many times when in the Ministry of War myself and others argued for an attack on Sirionite territory, but it was decided against it, because we attempt to keep offensive actions limited. You, of course, have no such qualms. We commit offensive actions only when we have no other option. Yes, Sirion has allies who share similar beliefs, because you have brainwashed them. Oligarch did not hire Perdan, or Caligus, or Ubent, or Avamar, or Rancagua, or Omsk. The last three, we tried to save. Also, you cannot rebuild 10 times better than we built(OOC-dont try and go around game statistics, please). Thats a fact. Also, the realm of Oligarch will be remembered: the city bears its name. The people bear it lovingly in their hearts. Unlike Sirion, who now torches their shops, mauls their wives and childrens, rapes their daughters, and destroys the city on a personal loevel. Sirion is truly despicable. I'm sure with your brainwashing tactics, you will soon have the city "happy and peaceful", for you will have manipulated and schemed your way into the very psychology of a good people, turning them from the truth. Vellos 22:33, 22 May 2006 (CEST)
On an OOC note, can you please separate each of your comments with a line or something? It's getting kinda hard to see where each comment ends and the next begins. Hireshmonts I can see quite easily cos of the user link, but Doc's are hard top see. And I enjoy the verbal mauling :) --The1exile 23:04, 22 May 2006 (CEST)
Unfortunately, the Oligarchians wandered into ruins...we do not know what happened to the inhabitants there. As far as we in Sirion were aware, the lands still belonged to Rogues. We only found out a people had colonized the place because Tabost--once a fresh and fertile land--was turned to a wasteland by a Group of Barbaric people Chopping down the forests...we saw the destruction from our townland in Trinbar, and decided to act. The Oligarchian people had to be stopped, else our own Forests would be next...all of the badlands in the North are a direct result of Oligarchian destruction. We failed in Sermbar, and we were unaware of Tabost and Obando...may Eleadora forgive us for those...ancient mistakes. It is good riddance to see the Oligarchian Government dismantling her buildings, it saved Sirion the gold she was going to spend on doing it. Everything here in Oligarch will be rebuilt, the walls, the shops, everything...and with proper Sirionite workers and architects. This once Dark place, will bask in the light, and act to Serve the Elements around us once again. Eleadora will be pleased...the War God put to Rest...the fire in my own veins will be put out...life will be good, once again, like in the days of my childhood so long ago. Sometimes, I thought I had dreamt those times, but I look at our peaceful forests and realize, that it was because Sirion stood up to the Oligarch War Machine, that those forests are still bountiful today. - Doc
It does not take much to stand over one smaller than you. It is a simple task to stand up to one far weaker than you, especially with others stronger than wo you stand up against. I suggest you do not speak as if "standing up" to Oligarch as an achievement Master Doc. It seems Doc, you also do not share the high value I place on self-sovereignty. Pity, it would make life far easier if you did. Ah life... --Alex 04:10, 23 May 2006 (CEST) (Legatus DeSyrr)
But, young lad, it is precisely because I DO value Soveriegnty that Oligarch has been destroyed. FOUR different INDEPENDANT agreements, at FOUR different Points and Times in History, for Oligarch+Sirion to MUTUALLY live together--one was even an offer to become allies. It was a direct INFRINGEMENT of Sirion's Soveriegnty AND Security to have such a treasonous realm as a neighbor...especially one that advocated murder as the policy of choice, and then switching to stalling with agreements (which Lysander has publicly accepted that Oligarch had NO intention of Honoring) to continue that policy of choice. After weeks of discussion, Oligarch would accept a Treaty, and then shortly after she raised an army..she'd be invading our lands again. Pity, Oligarch never valued soveriegnty, diplomacy or anything else 'civil' in this world. Can you not see that NO realm reached out to help Oligarch this Time? Good riddance..the Island breathes a sigh of relief. -Doc Primus Family
