Talk:Redspan Revealer/March Edition 2007

Respect

You guys must be mad...ASI has never broken a treaty with RedSpan...but this is like the 3rd time you guys do--that immeidately comes to mind anyway. Each time you do it is while ASI is extraordinarly busy with other affairs. This low blow is truely disturbing. My only hopes are that those that respect treaties see the dishonor in your actions, and pay you a little visit until you cease these senseless hostilities. Truely, one of many things that seperate man from animal, is Diplomacy. I do not think Da One wishes for you all to literally become Goats while living as Human beings. Doc's Revenge

Yes, because stealing Byblack, Roegshore and Sullenport when Redspan was extraordinarily busy with other affairs was such an honourable thing to do. And taking the islands from Abington while they were extraordinarily busy with other affairs was such an honourable thing to do. And I recall a plot to split Redspan's lands between ASI and Abington. And there was a time that ASI attacked Redspan in order to gain Ambermel when Redspan was in tense relationships with multiple other realms. And the list goes on. I don't recall any time that ASI has ever been particularly honourable. Diplomacy is fine and dandy, but when negotiations for what we want met with flat denial, there is a time that aggression is the only logical course of action. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Filador 06:43, 9 March 2007 (UTC).

Riiiight...I suppose that it was totally and completly dishonorable to give Sullenport back to RedSpan, not once, but twice. Only to be backstabbed, not once, but twice...we're definately the bad guys here. ---Hyral

I might note that the more recent time was only after stealing an additional two cities (including the second largest one on the map) from our ally. Which also allowed MI and Talerium to steal a third city for Kybcyell. Additionally, it forced Abington to leave the war to our north, which forced us to break off our war, and enabled CE to arbitrarily take more than half a dozen regions from Carelia. Furthermore, the original offer to buy Roegshore, which would have been up for negotiations was in the range of 10,000 gold plus trade agreements. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Filador 12:24, 9 March 2007 (UTC).

And what does all that have to do with Sullenport being given back to RedSpan twice? Carelia has reclaimed most if not all of her regions as far as I know, Kybcyell is dead and has been for a while as far as I know...and we didn't want to sell a region, it's our right an independent kingdom to not do what we don't want to do. But in the end, none of that changes the fact that after we gave the city back, and RedSpan turned and stabbed us in the back...again. ---Hyral

The RedSpaniards can't say beans on this matter. They know they're acting like scum, so they try and talk about ASI/Abby affairs...when they weren't even privvy to such matters. Abington was busy BECAUSE OF US when we took the Islands. It was a war over a treaty that was BROKEN with ASI. However, those damages are in the past, and we enjoy a rather GOOD relationship with Abington. However, the Goats always want more than they deserve...fine...ya'll will learn the hard way that it is not wise to backstab a neighbor...especially one that has defeated your realm in EVERY major war we've battled over in the past. This is what we get for giving Sullenport over to ya'll twice, and even giving you Byblack when we took it from Tara long ago. Once a Traitor, always a traitor, I guess. My mistake for lobbying in favor of better relations with RedSpan while I was king. I hope Malice doesn't make the same mistake. Doc's Revenge

Always so much anger. I hope that I do not grow so bitter in my advanced years. -- Dabug Habap 14:15, 9 March 2007 (CET)

Aye, that one curr has the stench of the walking dead. One day his misery will end, but until it does, he intends to make everyone as miserable as he. House Olik 19:25, 9 March 2007 (CET)

There is only reason in my words. House of Olik had best keep quiete, since they are all talk and no action...only a NOBLE house can speak against me since their honor rides on the line of their statemetns. There is no bitterness in my words, simply dissapointment in that RedSpan has learned absolutely nothing from her past. And that in it of itself is extraordinary. Ask anyone on the island whether or not RedSpan is honorable, and if they say "yes" with a straight face, I'll give you a cookie. Doc's Revenge

Nothing but foolishness from the old dog. Once again you show that the only way you know to win a contest is with the sword... no wonder your mother was a murdering traitor and your rule was marked by wanton aggression. So why whine because Redspan is giving you what you were once content to give others? Just for the sake of hearing yourself talk, it seems. Even the lowliest of goat-worshippers has more honour than thou, you son-of-a-whore. House Olik 18:40, 12 March 2007 (CET)

It astounds me that people from both realms are suprised that war has erupted. We asked for Rogeshore back when ASI returned Byblack and Sullenport, and they declined. We offered to buy it for a tidy sum, and they declined. What other course of action was left to us to reclaim our homeland other than war, in the same way you retook the Islands from Abington? The fact that people in Rogeshore were spreading the lies of Serpianism southward into our lands resulting in the assaulting of our Priests was merely the catalystic spark to ignite the conflict that had been brewing for months. Both realms have brought this on each other; nobody has the right to be bitter or insulting towards the other side. Now, we fight. (P.S> This is all I'm saying on this topic, so don't expect any debates.) Shamus oshea 18:29, 12 March 2007 (CET)

Well Olik House...you aren't even from RedSpan, and you don't even participate in war. You do the Palace Laundry, and patrol the garden...I have earned my place in this world with the very sword as you put it, I am a warrior and you are a worm. I don't have to even argue with you because you are nothing in the eyes of all those that earn their place under the sun.

As for what Shamus said..indeed, I guess you are correct in this affair. If your logic sounds true, ASI must simply take back what she gave it would appear. We didn't have to give RedSpan ANYTHING...it was offered to them in an agreement that clearly excluded Rogeshore. So this "Great Highway" nonsense will come to a close in some way or form. it is just a bloody shame. Doc's Revenge

I've fought and bled for Abington on many occasions, thou foolish old sheep's-gut. You don't want to argue, because you'll lose. Your points are irrational and based on your own biased and idiotic interpretations of your own Darka-loving dogs. I may not be from Redspan, so what? You are not from Redspan either. Again - you are irrational to the point of ridicule. You are no warrior, you're a foolish old man whose main successes were in manipulating OTHER realms to do your fighting for you. And even if you were a warrior, do you think that is impressive in light of your obvious brainlessness? You are a pitiably stupid old man who was shat out of the hole of a pitiably stupid traitorous wench. Your nobility is no more than that of a barbarian mercenary, your intellect is no more effective than your impotent manhood, and you consort with and support Black Cult members and Darkan dogs.

But, you are right on one thing - you don't have to argue with me, so by all means, shut your flapping mouth before your beard gets caught in your arse. House Olik 23:12, 13 March 2007 (CET)

House Olik, I'd appreciate it if you refrain from making posts like that in the future on the pages of my paper. Debates are fine, mudslinging is a house rule, but your last post was just a flat out insult, and disgraceful speech for a noble in my opinion. I really appreciate your willingness to speak out on behalf of the people of RedSpan, but please stick to semi-political rhetoric in the future. By the way, I've had many debates with ol' DR and I can tell you the man is the antithesis of foolish. He has problems remembering exact details from time to time, but his mind is still quick as a whip. The biggest mistake anyone can make when speaking with him is underestimating his skills (OOC: I imagine him as like a comic book supervillan, like Dr. Doom or something :). Shamus oshea 02:40, 14 March 2007 (CET)

Oh ho, and I do indeed offer debate. But Doc's Revenge, Self-Proclaimed Warrior, is "above" debate and he himself slanders my family name, my Queen and her judgement, and Abington itself with his "worm" comments and other filth! You clearly favor old DR, but you never had his mother murder one of your realm's Dukes after escaping prison! You never had his realm join in with the greedy opportunists of Atamara in raping, pillaging and attempting to annihilate yours! If you want debate, then look to who avoids it like the plague, instead throwing boasts, threats and childish insults - Doc's Revenge! (OOC: Actually, I always imagine Gauihu to be a supervillain. He's after all executed quite a few nobles and is quite paranoid and sadistic. DR seems more of a straight up fellow as far as the noble context of BM goes. Ah well, its all about perception... lots of characters see Gauihu as heroic too, LOL. Oh yeah, and could you call me Gauihu in-character? I sign my posts that way just cuz thats my user name, but its obviously Gauihu talking and not the entire family.)House Olik

Gauihu, you and your house are simply a nuisance. You cannot beat me with a sword, much less a pen. You were a coward when my mother that "killed your duke" offered you a way to kill her in a duel. So don't slander the name of a person that escaped your prison while you slept--she could have killed you in your sleep if she is so evil, proof that she is nothing as you describe her--and failed to do your job. I like Armitage, and I've never insulted Abington in my letters to this Newspaper or any other. It is only you that is a problematic Abby in my eyes. Gabriel was another. One down, one to go. As for spilling blood for Abington, of course you have, those delicate hands of yours often get pricked by the thorns of the roses you tend. Duels to the death don't even guarantee a burial...and I have so much more to lose if I don't catch your sneaky tricks while we duel anyway, but my offer is always on the table.

I wasn't asleep. The guards were. What does one expect of commoners? As for her duel... and yours... I do not take duels lightly nor see them as ways to win arguments. Even if I were to beat you, it would not make me right; nor you me make you right. That is how reason works. Reason isn't defeated by strength nor is it proven valid by strength. And since she was conspiring, with the Black Mambas assassin guild, to eliminate the High Council ("especially Drago") of Abington, she belonged in one place only: prison. And the grave, preferably. There is no way around the law. Gabriel didn't understand that either and he paid the price as well. I may not be able to righteously execute all who deserve it, but I can indeed ensure that Abington is purged of traitors. And lastly, if you truly liked Armitage III, you would not so insult my family, which is bonded with hers through holy matrimony. She tends to be in agreement. Gauihu

Shamus, good times as usual, but it is hard to not agree on that which is written...because the treaty is more than likely archived in the treaties section of ASI...signed by one of your Kings. However, we'll fight as long as needed for some sort of resolution to be reached, but Rogeshore will be the grave of many of our kinsmen if someone doesn't give, of that I am certain. I wish I could say more about Gaiuhu's strange implication that I love or serve with Darka...but I can't. We've yet to hire Darka a single time for anything, we never have any gold to spend on such things lol! I would like to say, however, many apologies for that looting incident...a random noob did it. Everyone on this Island knows that ASI is yet to employ tactics of looting and plunder as general policy, but isolated incidents always occur by random troublemakers. ((ooc: you can sign as gaiuhu actually, I used to sign Primus Family too till I figured out this neat lil thing...ie Gauihu see? so much better. DRP isn't supposed to be a Dr. Doom lol. He is actually quite a straight up guy, real tough, born and bred to serve for his virtues so to speak, with body mind and soul Doc's Revenge

OOC - thanks for the tip, I always just used the tildes before. They do have the advantage of signing a timestamp so you can tell when a message was written though. House Olik 22:07, 14 March 2007 (CET)

This is really off topic (and ooc) but what exactly are those said "virtues"? :P I mean really, Keiichi could charge DRP with...several things. ---Hyral

hehe come now, DRP may have undressed keiichi on several acounts while dueling, but he always got too distracted and got wounded for it. DRP is playful with the ladies ;)-- Stuart

ooc Early in one of the ASI/Abington wars, in Sullenport, Gauihu was "playful" with a lady too. JUST BEFORE KILLING AND EATING HER. :P House Olik 21:29, 15 March 2007 (CET)

ooc Yikes 0.0 Keiichi is going to stay away from the evil, scary man more than ever now.---Hyral

"That which is written", Doc's Revenge? I assume you refer to the section of the Treaty of Sullenport I (signed by both you and Shamus himself, for the record) that reads: "The Primary Parties hereby agree not to attempt to annex or damage any of each other's above mentioned territories for the duration of this Treaty." If the treaty were to end there, yes we would be in the wrong. However, the section concerning Duration of the treaty specifies that the treaty ends when Redspan is at neutral or higher with both Cagilan Empire and Tara, which we are, and that Ash Sea Islands are neutral or higher with Carelia, which they are. And since neither party made a motion to renew the treaty within fourteen days of the termination conditions being fulfilled, there was not a continuation as the Treaty of Sullenport II. Since the treaty ended long before our attack, we did not break it, and there have been no agreements between Redspan and ASI since. - Filador

My friend, you make an excellent point. Take a look at that Treaty, it recognized Byblack, Rogeshore and Sullenport as Ashlantean Soils. In a later agreement--which is not posted, some of them simply fail to get reported for whatever reasons--ASI agreed to release Byblack and Sullenport, Ashlantean regions as far as the law was concerned, to RedSpan. Nothing more. Nothing less. At the time of the agreement's fullfillment, the lands were returned to RedSpan and that was that. ASI made it perfectly clear that Rogeshore would not be given, it was a condition for the release of Byblack+Sullenport...so either RS accepted a hell of a deal, or chose not to over a rural region that ASI needs to feed herself. RedSpan being wise--at least then--chose to accept the deal and call it a day. So here we are now, and what has since changed? Honor if anything. Doc's Revenge

At the time that Byblack and Sullenport were returned to Redspan, the Treaty of Sullenport had already ended. Therefore, we were not required to recognize anything as rightful Ashlantean regions. To us, ASI was doing little more than returning stolen property - a good gesture, but one that circumstances should never have required in the first place. Probably a similar feeling to what ASI experienced when they chose to take back the Islands. To you, Abington giving back the islands without a fight would have been the right thing to do, because they stole them from you to begin with. However, they did not, and you were forced to fight for what you felt was yours. This is precisely the case with Roegshore. - Filador

Again a good point, but your history is a bit flawed...or short. I will fill in a big gap in your story. We never took Byblack/Rogeshore/Sullenport from RedSpan, originally, we took them from Tara. At the time, Tara and RedSpan refused to fight. Now the reasons why are complicated, but in short, they were chummy with one another. Quite differently, the condition for ASI+Abington to become better neighbors lay in the return of our Islands. So ASI+Abington agreed, we fought together, and then things happened, and we lost what we had gained. But it never ended there. Our treaty was dissolved over good evidence, but we were never given a chance--unlike how we have given RS numerous chances--to fix the problem. Instead much later we had to fight, yet again, for the Islands back. We have them, and now we have good relations with Abington--having given up our claims to MANY more CORE Ashlantean regions. The Kingdom of ASI once spread far and wide in what is currently under Abington's banner..but we are quite content with how things are now, so to speak, and are grateful. RedSpan on the other hand, is not grateful, and has bitten the very hand that fed her. In that Sullenport treaty it simply recognizes our lands. In a later treaty, we gave you Sullenport (for the 2nd time) and Byblack (for the FIRST time) because RedSpan honored the treaty: Not to Invade our Flank while Abington+ASI fought. At any rate, as you can see, ASI has always made it public news that it wanted her lands back...everyone on the Island was aware of this. As for RedSpan, this is not the case, this is a "new" development, so ot speak. Equivocating our two struggles is inappropriate, to say the least. ASI simply could never afford to give Rogeshore over to RedSpan, we need the food, and becoming that much more reliant on foriegn realms for food is simply belittling. We are already importers, and we don't want to be importing that much more because what happens "the next time" (if there is one) that RedSpan wants more? Then ASI is simply setting herself up for another catastrophe. RedSpan is simply too unstable for any agreement of that sort, at least historically. Doc's Revenge

You were obviously unaware of RedSpan's offer to purchase Rogeshore. It never ceases to amaze me that in every conversation you have, it always comes down to a discussion of how Abington has been unfair to ASI. You're just a bitter old man, hardly worthy of mention. --Habap 19:44, 16 March 2007 (CET)

Actually, you are either uneducated and fail to read what I say accurately, Habap, or you are feebly trying to paint a picture that simply is not. I was explaining to our good friend Filador a bit of history he was not aware of which makes the two matters quite different--ASI's in regards to the Islands, and RS's in regards to Rogeshore. As for the purchase...of course I was aware. But if something is not for sale, someone makes you an offer, well...usually one has the right to say "thanks, but we're not interested." So before you go giving ASI that much more credibility in this affair, I highly suggest you think your words a bit more before opening your mouth. I may be old, but I'm not bitter--or stupid. Doc's Revenge

Unfortunately for us, Habap, Doc's Revenge is beyond right. If I am not mistaken, his is the oldest noble family that is still actively supporting realms with its members. And while all too often I disagree with his points of view on situations or his opinions, I have never known him to recall facts improperly. And actually, I wouldn't call DRP old...his father, sure...(his "physical age" in game is 59. The oldest Redspaniard is AJ at 45) - Filador