Talk:Meiyo

Great idea Aarth. Also, there could be duels regularly or a sword fight against the general for disobeying realm orders etc. Losing a duel lowers you honour in the realm and winning gains it (not actually altering your h/p). --Bengrindy

• I don't exactly see the point of duels when orders are disobeyed. It only encourages making the best swordsman your General, rather than the one best suited for the job - which doesn't really fit the culture. (respect for wisdom and experience, honor your elders) Additionally, duels are really meant to be used only for serious questions of honor. If you recall, casual dueling was banned some time ago. -- Murakama 13:36, 13 December 2007 (CET)
  • Well, disobedience was a serious matter, but it usually resulted in seppuku, not dueling. And I doubt you'll find many people willing to kill off their characters for missing an order :P -Andrasta 13:38, 13 December 2007 (CET)
    • Seppuku is pretty much the last resort (can't win... save a bit of face before you die). e.g. when surrendering the "castle", the ritual suicide of "castle lords" are known to be used as a bargain token for the opponent to accept the surrender and not slaughter the soldiers. Disobey an order and kill yourself? ha! Rebel and killing the superior is more likely. Which can't happen in BM as there's no game mechanics for it. --Fodder 20:07, 19 December 2007 (CET)
      • Plenty of mechanics: duels 'till death and infiltrator assaults. Just like in real life! :D -Chénier 03:41, 20 December 2007 (CET)
        • I meant a proper rebellion, taking your army to assault your lord's castle and taking it over! There are no IC reasons for a lord to accept a duel. Do you think a buro would duel knowing he'll lose? Of course, one could name a champion or some such. If lost, is the lord forced to step down (by realm) and the rebel given the office? If the rest of the realm doesn't like it, they have no options to wage war on that region either (aside from yet another duel as above). So as I said, no game mechanics yet for warfare within a realm. --Fodder 08:00, 20 December 2007 (CET)
        • Or you could delete your char :) . Like i said, it is olny for the most heinous crime, not just any random crime eg, you are inactive hence you cannot obey orders, no need for Seppuku... Only in case of a rebellion, or a secession, or a shinobi assulting a fellow realm-mate. And if you dontwant to delete your character and regain your dishonor, you will be banned from the realm, caught if possible, hanged(if he is a shinobi), or denounced on the realm board Ceorl
          • Deleting your char sounds lamer than being killed in a random battle with a few rogue monsters, though. And that's pretty lame. -Chénier 05:44, 20 December 2007 (CET)
            • Getting killed by monsters is lame :P. But you can give a delete reason when you delete, so you can RP the last minutes before Seppuku. Or maybe a friend who helped you do it could RP your last word... It all depends on how /you/ look at it. Ceorl
              • Nah, I'll just never forgive those monsters. I always did tell everyone they were evil. :P -Chénier 12:55, 20 December 2007 (CET)
            • As for taking over your lord's region... I always wanted a greater duchal independance, so that dukes could fight eachother and whatnot... But anyways, have "rules" set up for that in your realm. If the lord is chalenged by one of his knights who fufills X criteria, he or a champion of his must duel him within Y time. The victor is lord of the region, the loser is kicked out. You'd have to inform yourself more of *who* would pull out these stunts though, probably not the average knight. Perhaps lords to their dukes, or marshals, or greedy council members, but I doubt the average knight would ('cause, for one, he wouldn't have the funds to recruit a sizeable army on his own). -Chénier 13:03, 20 December 2007 (CET)

--

Ideas

I have some ideas to offer:

Religion: have the realm support two religions, one based on Buddhism and one based on Shintoism.

Buddhism: multi-theist, meditation, suffering, enlightenment; focuses on mountain regions; name/symbol revolves around lotus or the eight-spoked wheel (Way of the Lotus? The Eightfold Path?)

Shintoism: nature worship, community, the seasons, the harvest; focuses on woodland regions; name/symbol revolves around nature (Naturalism?)

If Tom ever cracks down on national religions in non-Theocracies, this will give you ample protection.

The honor code should be simplified and clarified, or you'll have lots of arguments over whether someone violated #3 in order to follow #5, or whether #2 or #4 is more sacred, and silliness like that. I suggest something simple such as:

Honor, Duty, Glory

Or slightly more poetical:

Honor over Duty / Duty over Glory / Glory before Death / Death before Dishonor

Not sure if I want to join the ream yet. No character slots left. Anyway, hope that helps. GoldPanda 00:01, 11 December 2007 (CET)

Unless you get more players, and a decent ammount of ressources, you'll need to pick some remote baren lands on the western half as well, as land grabs won't be easy. -Chénier 00:56, 11 December 2007 (CET)

You've laid out some pretty good ideas here. I'm a little concerned that you've got an overly romantic idea of samurai, but it *is* a roleplaying game, so no biggie. Japanese history is chock full of warlords plotting against each other for land and power, sending assassins after their rivals and starting wars of conquest... it would make an excellent backdrop for the game. Just keep in mind that this is Battlemaster, not Japanmaster; what's important is that everyone can still have fun. Depending on how things work out with my characters, I would certainly consider playing there.
Also, If you're interested in a Shinto-style religion, look at Kamido. It's very close, with only a few tweaks here and there. -- Murakama 07:04, 11 December 2007 (CET)

True, it isn't Japanmaster but are you telling me that people couldn't enter Europe without been European? Another culture could be trying to take the western world here and this is the remainders of that colony or something. That doesn't change the game for anyone other than people in our realm and only for RP purposes. (Sorry but that came across as though i am having a go at you, i'm not :P) Bengrindy

Thanks i'll keep al this in mind. I especially want to see the cultural reaction with the meso-american realm, excellent RP ideas. About the religion, it would be excellent to have one that merges all the beleifs. Thanks for all the ideas.Ceorl

Hmm... I think I may get rid of Suzune and create a new character there. *thinks* Oh wait, with my adventurer I'll already have 3 characters anyway. I'll figure something out... --V2Blast ^talk•II 08:49, 11 December 2007 (CET)

Don't forget that city you mentionned is one of the 4 starting realms, so no luck in CTOing it. It's Morek, I believe. -Chénier 04:31, 12 December 2007 (CET)

I changed it now :D. Ceorl

different scale/concept?

I was thinking if it shouldn't be lowered down a peg or 2. the ruler isn't the emperor and the general not the shogun.. So the "ruler" is the daiymo instead. the general. well.. that'll usually be the daiymo himself too, though one could define the general as.. well.. the military man that the daiymo rely on the most. banker and judge.. well. technically they'll be the daiymo too. so perhaps a tyranny would make more sense.

Either the emperor or the shogun (who sets up a bakufu) rules everything. Power-sharing as such didn't really exist. Heck, sometimes neither mean much, eg when Oda Nobunaga was going around kicking ass, including the shogun's ass, the emperor was pretty much a figurehead.

there could be a series of (small) realms (eventually) modelled on this warring against each other. (not necessarily always warring!) The emperor is an npc. One of the realm ruler would be the shogun (does game mechanics allow rulers to be dukes too?)... an honorific title that gets passed around different realms. perhaps can be used to direct the series of realms against some common enemy.

Perhaps every knight has to be a hero? though there were cowards not to mention people with brains rather than brawn too.

Perhaps you are looking at the system at an earlier age, whereas I tend to view things from Sengoku and beyond.8

• I am viewing it from the 8th century till the 10th. And i am mixing up aspects of all the time periods, to add a little flavor. The little kingdoms part makes sense, but for that you need a lot of players. It will be one kingdom, until we have a base of at least 20 on the original realm. And I dont want it to be a tyranny. Game mechanics dont let you be a duke ruler, :/. Perhaps you have heard of the council of 5 elders. They were the daimyo, and the shogun was a part of them. And like i said, the emperor will rarely speak, unless asked to or if he really wants to. The daimyo and the council will decide matters. We are trying to take it as far as game mechanics will let us, but only so far. And i doubt i could force everyone to be a hero. Its just not enforceable. Ceorl
  • There are elders in all households, but they don't really have much power, aside from their own castles and land, as the lord has the final word, until someone bumps him off! Which is why I mentioned tyranny. I know that we are not allowed to tell people to choose a class. May I ask what is the guild is for? Perhaps membership is restricted to heroes for example? Incidentally, how would things like protect/setting estates to idle work for the purpose of asking a bigger share of the region's gold? Think I might be taking the SengokuMaster thing a bit too far. XD --Fodder 12:07, 22 December 2007 (CET)

• • • There will be competition amongst the ordinary samurai and the overlords, since the overlord is only slightly higher than samurai, and only the most powerful overlord has daimyo potential. This and the below sounda kinda similiar, i will merge the ideas.

Maybe the members of the council of 5 of the initial realm, can split and found the 3 clans later on. Of course, this is after we have time to establish the initial realm. The expansion will be westward, as hopefully this land will not be colonised by then. The guild is a samurai guild, a way for samurai to communicate, only true samurai have access to it(The higher the rank, the higher the prestige of the samurai). Its also a great way to communicate if we branch into realms.Ceorl

Tyrants can appoint themselves duke, they are the only ones who can. In all other systems, the only way for the ruler to be duke is if he created the realm through secession and has not lost the title since. -Chénier 16:50, 24 December 2007 (CET)

Clans and Emperor concept

I was thinking, Japan was never one realm, nor did it even look like it. Japan hardly even united against the mongol invaders. Maybe you could pick 3 of the smallest cities and one rich city of the map and create 3 clans out of it, the rich city would be the capitol of your 'Japan' where the emperor would stay with his imperial gaurd. the three other cities would be the clans and all of the factions would be in federation or alliance with each other untill some clan declares war on the other to claim his title of Shogun. When one claims the title of shogun the Emperor decides if his claim is just and if the emeperor decides so, that man would be part of the elders of some sort of guild who forms the imperial council. The imperial council can call upon all clans to defend the emperor when needed or go to war with outside realms. So by wining several battles against one or two clans you win respect by the emperor, the emperor than decides if your worthy to be called the lord of Japan. Than you have enough influence to possible force peace and forge new federations and go to war with foreign nations to claim more land for your faction, but don't claim to much land, or the other two factions might declare war once more. :P Do you like it? --Vlad 10:20, 22 December 2007 (CET)

• It is interesting. However, we dont quite have the game mechanics to support it. For instance, what realm would the emperor belong to? Unless you plan to have 3 daughter realms and 1 mother realm? Too bad Tom doesnt let you be in 2 realms, for instance the dukes of the daughter realm could be the rulers of the daughter realm and members of the council of 5 i the mother realm.:)Unfortunatly we dont have mechanics for that.Ceorl

That was not really what i ment, I will explain it more properly:

• There are 4 realms.
• One realm, with the richest capitol is the Imperial duchy, the ruler is the emperor and the realm is ONLY alowed for people who are there to serve the emperor and the emperor only, they may only join to protect the emperor upon the emperors alowance.
• The 3 other realms are clans and can rule there realm however they want, they are protectorates of the Emperor, they do what ever the emperor tells them or alows them to do.
• There is only unity in the form of one guild which can be called 'Japan'(not literly called, but it reasembles the realms mutuality, every nobles of the four realms is welcome to join.
• The elders of this realm are a council, the members of this council are: The Emperor, The Shogun(title of Honor, changes to the leader of the ruling clan) and a number of representatives from all three of the clans and/or a number of represnetives from the Emperors office(The relam council of the Emperor's realm).
• The Emperor decides everything but the previously named council advises him, the Shoguns advise will be the most powerful together with the (possibly) personal advisor of the Emperor.
• Everything in all four relams surounds around this guild, the emperor and it's Shogun.

The only dificult thing about this is to have equal income and strenght in all the three clans as much as possible in order to have a fair and fun 'mini game' of politics within dwilight. The Emperor has to be a player that serves only for the fun of the game and is ABSOLUTLEY NOT a power gamer, noone in the emperors realm should even lean towards beeing a powergamer, you should have strong OOC agreements about this else the whole concept could esclate into a major poweforce ruling over almost half of the island. I hope you udnerstand my concept a little more now :P--Vlad 11:31, 22 December 2007 (CET)

• • Ahh. I see what you mean. It sounds like a lot of fun, maybe we can implement it once we have established the initial realm! Ceorl

• • • Your emporer city should only be the city by itself and the donut regions around it. Or you have on one of those small islands and just have it as that city and regions. And your clan realms as surrounding it. If you want to become Shogun another possible way would be to capture the emporers city, and when you hand the city back you will also be getting named as Shogun.

Help editing

Can you please help me to organise the template...? Thanks, cz i'm really not that great with wikis.

placed it on the right spot, and filled in some info as well as deltting the {{{ brackets. Need some more help? --Vlad 15:52, 22 December 2007 (CET)

• Thanks! Nothing for now, will keep it in mind if i think we need somthing later. If you want, you could try to design a crest resembling these http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mon_%28badge%29 , a floral pattern would be great. I will give it serious consideration. Ceorl

No problem, tell me what you want as imperial flag, what kind of symbol and I'll see what i can do.

I can also make the flags for the three clans if you like, but i also need to know some background information, a story a roleplay or a symbol (for example an animal) --Vlad 19:12, 22 December 2007 (CET)

• • Maybe you can pick 3 flowers, and combine their petals to form the governing realms flag, and have the petals that combine to make the imperial flag, be the clan flags. Just to say that all the clans together, make the empire. Ceorl

emigration

When the island opens, will it be opened to immigration only or can new characters join directly? (advy unlikely to turn noble... so chances are I'll have to delete it to make way... question is when)

• You should be able to create chars there. Just like all the continents except Belu. I feel this is how it will be, not 100% sure. Ceorl 10:31, 1 January 2008 (CET)

Map

Incase some of you are still confused at how the continent is starting up, I made a quick map for other people, the bolded red lines are the starting realms' borders. Map -Chénier 01:00, 9 January 2008 (CET)

By the way... You wanted to start out in Madina, right? That's a pretty damn long trek. Pian en Luries should be much closer, not to mention that 4-region-2-duchy Nebel island is a wiser choice than it's 2-region counterpart. -Chénier 18:09, 11 January 2008 (CET)

Madina is 2 regions from Raviel... Via sea route. And after Raviel we weill take Nebel too. Both those islands. Ceorl 07:13, 12 January 2008 (CET)

Two "regions" away doesn't mean it's short. Sea routes take a long freaking time, just look at the distance. Sure, it's be a easy "travel to..."-"set next destination" trek, but it'll still take a freaking long time. Don't expect to wage war through sea routes, it'll be borderline impossible. -Chénier 15:50, 12 January 2008 (CET)

Just joined Madina. now.. all I can say is that I can't see the left side of the map.. "satnav" tells me.. Madina - Paisly - Port Raviel 82 hours, or 12 turns. Anyway, are the plans for this shelved for a month or 2... help Madina establish itself then move away or something? --Fodder 15:45, 15 January 2008 (CET)

That puts a twist in the story... Maybe we can wait in Madina till we gather enough funds to do the CTO. Cant change the starting location now, as some people have emmigrated. 12 turns is 6 days... We should be able to pay our men in that period. Ceorl 05:22, 17 January 2008 (CET)

Religion

I might just have a religion for you, it's eastern enough to fit, and not a real world faith. It is very close to completion and though I can't promise it'll be ready for Dwilight's opening, I'll do what I can.--Dalakar 08:13, 9 January 2008 (CET)

The Way

There's a lot to read I know, but I'll answer as many questions as I'm able.

• I'm interested. Any way you could incorporate a Sun Goddess into it? Ceorl 06:51, 11 January 2008 (CET)

Problem with Dwilight

Tom clearly stated in the discussion list that Dwilight's realms must follow a western medieval model, he doesn't like other forms for that continent.
What about moving this concept to Beluaterra? There should be enough land once daimons' invasion ends.Marco 16:21, 15 January 2008 (CET)

The player suffers the same problems as me, I believe. We already have chars on Belu... We can only wait and hope right now... -Chénier 20:59, 15 January 2008 (CET)

• • We will be going ahead. Of course due to this frisbee being thrown right at us, we wil have to change a little bit. We will be a european type realm which will follow the code(which is in the article) , which will be slightly de-japanized. The special names part will also have to be changed a little. I somhow doubt that Tom will let us split into clans, but lets keep it in mind in case he changes his mind. Fortune favors the bold! Ceorl 05:17, 17 January 2008 (CET)