Talk:Family Pages/old

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Ok the former family page is a bit of a mess. Do we want to have rules on the template of this portal page is to look like? I think Family/Clan name list of characters and a denotation of rulership, deceased, or retired for each character is sufficant. I think alphabetical as well.

I do like Lorens set up however.--Eric S P

Actual history not a good look.

It looks a little lengthy and cluttered with just a short veiw of my family history. I think we should keep it small. Family name and a character list... maybe character list and number of rulerships.--Eric S P

Can we do this better?

There's got to be a better way to organize this page than over rulership. (Nevermind that the "Versatile Families" section is a tad on the self-serving side) Why not organize them by their home island? There could easily be sub-organizations (such as for rulership) and such. --Dolohov 2 August 2005 20:30 (CEST)

Most everyone on EI?

First this was Lorens Idea and it was I that moved everyone (Loren's included) to the Versatile Families. I had to have my arm twisted (mostly by Tom) to even participate in the Tiki. So self servering... sure if that is the way that you want to look at it.

Now Home island is just bad. Unless I completely misunderstand how it works, you have to have X amount of gold in family money and be lucky and watchful to move the family estate and the majority of people that really get into there realm and game don't tend to take from there realm in hours of need, or are on islands that can't send money home if they are able to without hurting there realm.

So even a smaller protion will be able to be on a island that they like and most everyone will be on EI or Atamara. That would suck. If you want rearrange the order and put the Ruling and Versatile Families on the bottom. It is far better than island homes. I will not likely ever go back to EI and that is not representative of my family.

Or Straight alphabetical, I don't care... just Lorens way has a lot more flair, and that is somewhat what the game is about.--Eric S P


Actually, Atamara is the winner in home world count:
+-----------+----------+
| HomeWorld | count(*) |
+-----------+----------+
|      NULL |       25 |
|         1 |      294 |
|         2 |      496 |
|         3 |       41 |
|         4 |       16 |
|         5 |       23 |
|         6 |       87 |
|         7 |       36 |
+-----------+----------+
--Tom 2 August 2005 23:09 (CEST)
I hadn't realized just how skewed the home islands were, or I wouldn't have suggested it, but the point is that there really ought to be a better way to organize the family listings than by how many rulerships a family has had -- if you're going to do that, you might as well just organize by how old the families are. Why not go with a more roleplay-style, and create Associations to which people can place themselves (selecting only one, and maybe forming their own):
  • The Old Oak Association is a list of the strong and hardy families. The Old Oak relies on a strong foundation of long and honorable service. It rejects infiltration, and views with distrust bankers and merchants of all types.
  • The Notched Sword Association is a list of the battle-hardened families of the South Islands (although many families are based elsewhere) They value military discipline over all other virtues, and believe that the only position worth holding is that of General or Marshal.
... that sort of thing. The individual associations might sub-divide themselves according to the number of rulerships or generalships held, naturally, but this way we avoid having a handful of old-timers at the top, and then a huge mass of (relative) newcomers at the bottom. (And I know it's Loren's idea; When I said "Self-serving" I didn't mean "ESP-serving" but the old-timers in general. I just think that there's a better way to do it, that will result in a more even organization and make the whole thing a little more interesting.) --Dolohov 3 August 2005 01:04 (CEST)
Well the entire idea IMO is about showing your wares and saying 'I am better than you, and I can prove it.' It is not about an RP society, clan, or guild. It is along the same lines that everyone and their brother laid claim to being the decendant to Charlemagne or Alexander.. no matter how tenuos the connection was. It is about pedigree and lineage to greatness. It is quite literally a Mine dick is bigger than yours. contest/comparision. Loren said as much when he created the page.
And you know what? That is ok. We are not getting all politically correct here. This not a mutual hug society type of game nor is the competion ascept of the game played down. In fact it is the opposite imo. I think... nay know that what is looked for is confrontation IC on every level imaginable. If pointing to the family pages and saying "My lineage is greater than your lineage" I think that is cool. This is not a repository of records... we have that already it is called user data.
Last on the complaint of the way it is organized and was started and the leveling up that Loren did... there are a lot of people that have not nor could not do was the top 4 players there have done. It doesn't matter how long someone has been around, there are forces of Nature that can literally do just about anything they want to do in a realm. Personally I have 3 new rulerships in the last year. I could have had 5 without much work. I don't think it is ego, I am that type of person. I have a knack. I went into a former enemy realm and without trying or aide from long time supporters, took 25% of the ruler vote with 3 very popular past rulers running.
You should see Tom in action when he is in one of his disguised playing accounts. Tom is the mob-rules ruler. He gets people caring about small insignificant tripe and than he sets himself as the onl;y person that can make it right. It is fun, and scary, to watch. Lorens people have been bitter enemies for an amazingly long time, but I can not deny that he is a master puppeteer. He finds marks gets them to do his bidding until he is running everything either and minions guarding and protecting him all the time. TK is one of the most genuine people I have ever met. He has instant credability because of his mannerism. He is Kind Sir TK, the peoples champion. Any of these three are not old Oaks, they are apt to the description.
I would however agree that every family should have its bragging rights. How about we think of other things that a family might want to be known for? But it has to be something that is measurable in game terms and appears on the user history. Something that in the BM style time line would be boosted about. Off the top of my head, Heroism. Dead Heroes and Heroic deeds (just having a Heroe is proof of deeds). So we could do several tiers of accomplishment. Rulers are the big ones and they should be first and then subsections of the families Greatness. Fame could be another, just have to come up with a better family page word to express it.
Sound a little better to you?--Eric S P 3 August 2005 08:54 (CEST)
I'm fine with the idea of having different pages for various "bigger dick competitions" -- but this is the more-or-less official family page, linked to off the front page of the wiki. Having the page set up by one of the Editors (or at least appear to be) makes it even more official.
I'm happy to let it sit like this until something honestly better comes along. Maybe fame is more appropriate, since it's officially tracked by the game -- and since it changes relatively often, it'll get people more involved in moving their own families around. --Dolohov 3 August 2005 15:21 (CEST)

Family page locations

I strongly suggest putting family pages under the user pages as subpages. Look for my family page as an example. --Tom 3 August 2005 09:54 (CEST)

I *hate* the "versatile" crap

I really don't get it. What's this seperation four? Do I have less bragging rights if I only ruled 4 realms? I find this total nonsense, and it'll only lead to more "I'm better than you" crap than we already have.

The place to brag about your family is on the friggin' family page. The list page should be as neutral as possible.

--Tom 3 August 2005 16:25 (CEST)

I'd reccomend that you make the list look something like:

with the first come, first in the list sort of order. One long list with no commentary at all. -- Nicholas August 3, 2005 18:09 (CEST)

I don't think it would be difficult to have people put them in alphabetical order, by family name. The occasional slip-up can be corrected easily. --Dolohov 3 August 2005 18:11 (CEST)
Geez ok. What is the point of fame again? And the fame list? Money List? I never got the title Versatile but the divisions did lead to participation. And what the hell is wrong with I'm better than you? Tom? People in game and out have fun with it all the time. This page in the Tiki didn't become popular because it was friendly... and started dying because it was too cluttered and not easy to read... scores and scores of endless mundane information. I just figured I had a handle on it as I have worked with people (even taught them tiki) to get their family name up in lights... even dim ones. But everyone do what you want.--3 August 2005 18:20 (CEST)

Making it friendly

If you want friendly, quit jerking around and and do straight alphabetical. If not have some freakin fun with it! I am either or on the this subject. If it is a watered down pissing contest and not fun... I want name removed from it. Nothing worse than doing something half assed --Eric S P 3 August 2005 18:26 (CEST)