Estates/IRC Q&A Log

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[14:06] <+jerm_> When does the new system go live?
[14:07] <@_Tom_> jerm_: the system is currently in internal testing and I have most of the parts done. There's a few missing parts, so I can't give an exact date, but I would say a few weeks, with "few" being in the low single digits.

[14:09] <+Aerywyn> Is this completely replacing the issues of region maintenance so there is less attention to be paid to bureaucrat work and courts, or just the system of estates we have at the moment which regulate production, morale, loyalty and control?
[14:10] <@_Tom_> Aerywyn: this replaces estates, and removes the penalties for not having enough estate coverage, so it will make things a bit easier for some regions, but region maintainance will still have to happen.
[14:10] <+Aerywyn> Alright, thank you.

[14:10] <+Sacha> will lords still have the option to give good or bad marks to knights?
[14:11] <@_Tom_> no, good and bad marks are gone.

[14:11] <+Sacha> so no more invulnerability from judges from getting 3 good marks?
[14:12] <@_Tom_> Sacha: No invulnerability. One of the changes in this system is that we have a lot fewer game-mechanics restrictions and rely more on players checking what happens to them. So you can resize a knights estate or kick him out and the game doesn't stop you, but unless he's a pussy, there should be consequences.

[14:11] <+Lefanis> So the lord no longer has a share of region taxes? He only gets ascertain percentage from each knight sworn t to him?
[14:13] <@_Tom_> Lefanis: It's a totally new system, here is a flowchart: http://wiki.battlemaster.org/wiki/New_Taxes
[14:13] <@_Tom_> most lords will still get a lot more than their knights
[14:13] <@_Tom_> but the system is a lot more flexible now

[14:12] <+Fleugs> Does the lord still decide the taxrate? Because the knights are the primary point of income.
[14:14] <@_Tom_> Fleugs: yes, the lord decides the tax rate, the knights collect the taxes, and pass the lord share on to the lord. so the lord determines on two levels how much gold the knights get.
[14:14] <+Aerywyn> I like this... it is more medieval, less like a stipend to the knights.

[14:12] <+Velax> What do you mean by, "A duke doesn't have to be a lord"? Won't a duke always be the lord of a city or stronghold?
[14:15] <@_Tom_> Velax: No, that is one of the changes. Duke is now a position all on its own. You can be just duke, without being lord of any region. Or you can be the duke of a duchy, but not the lord of its city.

[14:13] <+Telrunya> Duke is more like a mini-Ruler now?
[14:15] <@_Tom_> Telrunya: That depends on how you view it. The main change is that duke is now a position in its own right with its own options, and not a fancy name for the lord of a city or stronghold.

[14:15] <+Nosferatus> in how far will it be possible to restrict felxibility for dukes and lords in this system? example the king wants dukes also to be the region lord of the 'duke capital' (city/stronghold of duchy), can this king restrict the system to his liking?
[14:16] <@_Tom_> Nosferatus: There are no game-mechanics enforcements the ruler could use, but of course he can make that the law in "his" realm and figure out ways to enforce it.


[14:15] <+Silverhawk> Will estates only be used for the taxes or will they have other "abilities" like the "production" VS "administration" option now?
[14:17] <@_Tom_> Silverhawk: Right now, estates are very simple. However, the main driver behind this change was that I plan to make them a lot more interesting in the future, way beyond what the old estates were like. So, the answer is basically: "yes"


[14:15] <+Perth> So a Knight could be Duke of his Duchy? Or are they exclusive titles--can't have one AND the other.
[14:18] <@_Tom_> Perth: You can be duke only, or duke and lord or duke and lord and knight. You can not be duke and knight, but not lord, because that would mean the lord "inbetween" would be both above and below you in the hierarchy.
[14:18] <+Fleugs> I love that a duke doesn't have to be lord of his city... awesome, this will make for some very nice powerstruggles

[14:15] <+Sacha> for lords who want to change duchies: do their regions still have to border the duchy they wish to join?
[14:19] <@_Tom_> Sacha: Yes, to this particular case, but duchies are in general more flexible now.

[14:16] <+Velax> What will be the title name of a lord of a city?
[14:19] <@_Tom_> Velax: Not yet decided.

[14:16] <+Lefanis> How does the new economy tie into this? Wood/administration/fishing/manufacturing etc
[14:19] <@_Tom_> Lefanis: No tie in yet.

[14:16] <+Ramiel> Darn it... I liked giving out Good and Bad Marks... is there anything to replace them?
[14:21] <@_Tom_> Ramiel: Yes, there is - but not a game mechanic. One change is that I hope that added flexibility will also make you the players pass laws, rules, regulations that you enforce yourselves. I find laws that can be broken and thus have consequences a lot more interesting than a "you can't do this" message from the game engine.
[14:21] <@_Tom_> So basically, the idea is that a lord should stand up for his knights. But he has to do it himself instead of hiding behind game-mechanics.

[14:17] <+Nosferatus> i geuss the king also still apoints both positions right? (duke and region lord of the duchies city)
[14:22] <@_Tom_> Nosferatus: No, the king only appoints dukes. Dukes then appoint region lords. Remember that in this new system, the duchy and the duke position are entirely seperated from the region/city and the lord position.

[14:22] <+Sacha> what happens to the system of region claims? will it remain as it is, will it be modified, will it be removed altogether?
[14:22] <@_Tom_> Sacha: region claims are gone.
[14:22] <+Sacha> good... i never like claims :)

[14:22] <+Telrunya> Without Claims, how will the new Appointment System be? (Claims could be appointed from a distance, not-claims had to have both Duke and future Lord in the region). Will there be more autonomy for Dukes with for example choosing how to appoint/elect their Lords or is this still handled realmwide?
[14:23] <@_Tom_> Telrunya: Right now, anyone who is eligable can be appointed. There's a note in the text that we want to consider the government systems (e.g. replace appointments with elections) where appropriate, but that is not yet coded.

[14:22] <+Igy> Could you give us an example as to what you may be thinking of when you say you want to make estates more interesting via the new system?
[14:25] <@_Tom_> Igy: One idea - but that is really only an idea, so don't quote me if it doesn't happen - is that the various buildings of a region, those academies and cart builders and smiths as well as recruitment centers, guildhouses and temples, are actually inside an estate. And only the knights, not the lord, can construct new ones (but remember the lord can be a knight, too).
[14:27] <+Ramiel> hang on.. all buildings are now made by Knights not Lords? Does that mean a new Knight can just come and make a new relgion on day 1?
[14:33] <@_Tom_> Ramiel: Please. I said that the buildings thing is just an idea for now. Someone asked for an example of future enhancements.

[14:22] <+Velax> So are cities still considered duchy capitals? What about if the duke is lord of a rural or woodland region?
[14:25] <@_Tom_> Velax: No, there is no such thing as a "duchy capital" anymore.

[14:22] <+Lefanis> What is to prevent region lord from adding vacant land to his own estate?
[14:27] <@_Tom_> Lefanis: Nothing stops him, except that there is a hard limit on how big estates can be, and a soft limit/incentive that I have not yet finished designing. Power-hungry lords can run their region with one or two other knight(s), but it won't be the economically best approach.

[14:22] <+Perth> Will there be ways for Dukes or Lords to withhold payment of their taxes up hierarchy? For instance, a Duke is upset with his Ruler, so he refuses to pay his share.
[14:28] <@_Tom_> Perth: There is no way to not pay your share. However, there are a couple very interesting ways to make sure your share is very low or even zero. I'll leave it to you guys to figure all of them out. ;-)
[14:28] <+Perth> Excellent. Thank you.
[14:29] <+Sacha> Perth, a lord not willing to pay his superiors can set his own tax revenue to 0% of the estates' and have his knights pay him an amount from their own pockets. nothing to be taxed by the duke/king :)
[14:34] <@_Tom_> Sacha: That's one way to dodge your shares, yes :-)

[14:24] <+Nosferatus> what about apointments from a distance or does the duke/king have to be in the specific region?
[14:29] <@_Tom_> Nosferatus: Right now, and for the transition period, there will be very light restrictions and many things can be managed from a distance. We don't want people to have to return home in the middle of a war to set up estates. But once things have settled in, there will be a few restrictions. However, we also plan a new system to address this whole issue in a more general way.

[14:24] <+Ramiel> hmmm I like the idea of being Duke without being Lord of a City... could make it very interesting... if I read it right you can NOT be lord of City and Duke?
[14:30] <@_Tom_> Ramiel: You CAN be both lord of a city and the duke. But you don't have to.

[14:25] <+JPierreD> I have two doubts: If a region lord moves from one Duchy to the other, is any ban enforced? And if a Duke makes a friendly secession, will he be automatically banned anyway?
[14:30] <@_Tom_> JPierreD: Right now, if you change your allegiance inside your own realm, there will be no repercussions unless they are player-enforced. If you change realms, there will be an automatic ban.

[14:26] <+Peristalticos> are duke shares fixed for all regions of a particular duchy, or can one duke set them up differently? just to say, ask 20% of a rural or 20% of a city makes a big difference
[14:31] <@_Tom_> Peristalticos: The shares are always set as one value. A lord will collect the same lord share from all estates in his region, a duke will collect the same duke share from all regions in his duchy, a ruler will collect the same realm share from all duchies in his realm.

[14:26] <+Velax> How do you create new duchies?
[14:31] <@_Tom_> Velax: The ruler has an interface where he can create new duchies.

[14:26] <+Telrunya> But each City is still it's own Duchy then? Or can you have Duchies without Cities or several Cities in one Duchy?
[14:32] <@_Tom_> Telrunya: No, there can be duchies without cities or duchies with more than one city. The current limitation is that a new duchy must have at least a city, stronghold or townsland in it - i.e. SOME region that's not a backwater redneck place. :-)

[14:32] <+Aerywyn> Can a ruler remove a duchy though?
[14:33] <@_Tom_> Aerywyn: Duchies can be removed if they don't have any regions anymore.

[14:32] <+Lorgan> What will happen with the banker if the ruler collects realm taxes?
[14:34] <@_Tom_> Lorgan: The role of the banker has not yet been decided on finally. He will fit into this new system somehow, but I've not yet fitted him in. That will come.

[14:33] <@LilWolf> Will there be any sort of penalties for large duchies since the system seems to make a single large duchy a possible way to go?
[14:36] <@_Tom_> LilWolf: I can not yet say. I definitely WANT this setup to be one option. I don't think it will be the main choice, though. But like everything in BM, thinks will be tweaked as we gather experience. So if it turns out this setup gives realms an advantage, we will counter-balance.

[14:35] <+Miriam_> Will the Courtier class be still needed?
[14:36] <@_Tom_> Miriam_: certainly, yes. There are many jobs they are still needed for. This shouldn't affect them very much.

[14:36] <+Optimus_> When does this all go live?
[14:36] <@_Tom_> Optimus_: I can't give an exact date, but we're testing it internally, and my best guess is "in a few weeks", where "few" is in the low single digits.

[14:36] <+Telrunya> So Ruler could block Duchies from being created and force Region Lords into certain Duchies (Or pile everyone together in one Duchy for more effective Police Work etc.). My initial thought would be to have Lords create Duchies, but I really should see the system in action first before that :)
[14:37] <@_Tom_> Telrunya: Well "block" is not the right word, because only the ruler can create duchies in the first place. He can't force lords into certain duchies, at least not with game mechanics.

[14:36] <+Sacha> is there a chance that the realm banker goes away, and is replaced by a sort of duchy bankers?
[14:37] <+Nosferatus> sacha, good idea, one steward/banker per duchy
[14:37] <@_Tom_> Sacha: Nothing like that is planned at this time.

[14:37] <+Velax> How will it be implemented into the current system? Will existing duchies remain, but the duke will have to be appointed?
[14:39] <@_Tom_> Velax: All existing duchies will remain exactly as they are, including with the current duke remaining duke. Basically, his current position is split into lord and duke. We will not strip anyone of his position.

[14:38] <+Peristalticos> since the estates won't cover the "authority" side of region manteinance anymore, will only taxes be the "passive" way (courts are active) for a lord to influence a region's control/loyalty/morale?
[14:39] <@_Tom_> Peristalticos: yes, regarding passive ways. But as said before: That's why we keep the courtier class, etc. unchanged, because they will still be needed.

[14:38] <+JPierreD> Without Imperial Regions, how will new regions be assigned to a duchy?
[14:40] <@_Tom_> JPierreD: Not every case of that has been decided yet.

[14:39] <+squirrel> do the General/Banker/Judge get paid?
[14:41] <@_Tom_> squirrel: not for their position. But they can be knights, lords or dukes, of course. The basic idea here is that you are more independent if you have your own source of income. You can, of course, also be retained by the king with manual payments, but that also makes you very dependent.

[14:40] <+Velax> So we won't see any duchies where the lord of the city is not also the duke of the duchy until new duchies are formed or there's duke turnover?
[14:41] <@_Tom_> Velax: After the switch itself, all dukes will also be lords of the city or stronghold, because that's how the current system works. But after that, things become flexible and can change, yes.

[14:40] <+Brant> Can rulers still give away regions?
[14:42] <@_Tom_> Brant: not yet finally decided

[14:41] <+Peristalticos> wouldn't the lack of the possibility to put a lot of coverage to authority force the lord to spend more time in his region to exert maintenance, or was this already taken in consideration?
[14:42] <@_Tom_> Peristalticos: our hope is that this will cancel out with the fact that the requirement for estate coverage is also going away.

[14:42] <+Telrunya_> My only concern would be for Realms to push towards one gigantic Duchy, but time will tell. However I think this is very nice step from Estates and smooths the process nicely. Well done :)
[14:44] <@_Tom_> Telrunya: There are various things down the line that will probably counter that. Also don't forget the power-struggles reason. Would you want to be the ruler of a realm where a single duke basically controls everything? You can create new duchies. You would very likely do so just to reduce the power of this guy who is trying to tell you how to roll.
[14:44] <@_Tom_> That's a more general remark on the whole system:
[14:44] <@_Tom_> We are bringing in a lot more flexibility. And many new options and possibilities.
[14:44] <@_Tom_> We hope that this will result in more power struggles and internal conflict.

[14:43] <+Velax> Without "oaths", will knights still be considered bound in some way to their lord? Does the lord still assign them to an army?
[14:46] <@_Tom_> Velax: Yes, taking an estate is still an oath. Just the game mechanics change. Instead of all the complicated back and forth, we ALLOW you to just pick up an estate while you're moving through, or to just kick out a lord just because you feel like it. We ALLOW you to do that - but we hope that the other players affected by your actions will make sure there are consequences.

[14:43] <+Lefanis_> So will each estate have a different production value based on whatever estate options there are?
[14:47] <@_Tom_> Lefanis_: Right now, estates are part of a region and share its values, like production, morale, etc. That may change in the future, it's one of the interesting things that are possible with the new system.

[14:44] <+Brant> Can the ruler combine duchies together by appointing a sitting duke as the duke of another duchy?
[14:47] <@_Tom_> Brant: No, the ruler can not merge duchies.

[14:45] <+Nosferatus> Will rogue regions have any estates, and how much more dificult will it be to take a rogue region compared to a region ocupied by a realm?
[14:48] <@_Tom_> Nosferatus: There will be no estates in rogue regions. Takeovers do not change.

[14:46] <+Lefanis_> Duke has to tax all his lords the same? He can't tax the lord he doesn't like more?
[14:48] <@_Tom_> Lefanis_: No, same tax rate to everyone directly underneath you.

[14:46] <+Miriam_> How will religion affect all this?
[14:48] <@_Tom_> Miriam_: I don't understand the question. What do you mean?

[14:49] <+Peristalticos> how is food production related to this? is it proportional to gold, or given by the absolute value of production of the region regardless of knights?
[14:49] <@_Tom_> Peristalticos: There is no change in food production, it's the same as now.

[14:49] <+Lefanis_> How can duchies be destroyed, if they cannot be merged?
[14:49] <@_Tom_> Lefanis_: If a duchy loses all its regions, the ruler can dissolve it. Or he can keep a duke without land around, if he wants a court pet. :-)

[14:49] <+Nosferatus> but with no estates it will be much harder to hold a region than with estates, so it would mean holding the region after a takeover would be more dificult in rogue regions, right?
[14:50] <@_Tom_> Nosferatus: No, you are thinking old estate system with authority and control, etc. - that's not relevant anymore.

[14:50] <+Sacha> will anything change to the way taxes are distrubited? as in, do you still get your estate share in cash if you are in your own duchy?
[14:50] <@_Tom_> Sacha: Not yet finally decided, but don't expect major changes.

[14:50] <+Peristalticos> well right now few knights that cover production mean less food potentially, with the new system one can have a region that produces little gold because of poor estate coverage but yet produces food at 100% value?
[14:51] <@_Tom_> Peristalticos: there is no such thing as estate coverage anymore.

[14:50] <+Telrunya> So any region could then align himself to a regionless Duchy? So as Ruler I could make a new Duchy, make myself Duke, and then see how far my influence reaches hmm
[14:52] <@_Tom_> Telrunya: Not quite. A new region has to be created from a city, stronghold or townsland region.
[14:52] <+Telrunya> Ahh

[14:51] <+Peristalticos> right what I meant is just that you have a lot of vacant estates
[14:52] <@_Tom_> Peristalticos: that only influences tax collection. you know, not enough tax collectors means you don't reach all of the peasants. the woodcutters deep in the forest, etc.

[14:53] <+Perth> How will duchies be named? With no more duchy capitals they won't just be "Duchy of Kelpercity" anymore, right? And the Duke doesn't have to even be a Lord so what does the duchy get named after?
[14:53] <+augulus> what do you mean by "created from?"
[14:54] <@_Tom_> augulus: here's what the "create duchy" dialog says:
[14:54] <@_Tom_> You can also create new duchies at will. A new duchy needs to have a somewhat strong base, meaning it needs to have at least one region and that region needs to be a city, stronghold or a townsland.
[14:54] <@_Tom_> By promoting the region lord to duke, you effectively remove his region from the duchy it currently belongs to and turn it into a new duchy. Other region lords can then join this new duchy.
[14:54] <@_Tom_> You can freely choose a name below, but almost all duchies are named after their initial or main region. Please do not deviate from this unless you have a compelling reason. Also, the name you choose should go nicely in the phrase "the duchy of (duchy name)".
[14:54] <+augulus> alright, thanks

[14:53] <+Velax> Can you name duchies?
[14:53] <@_Tom_> Velax: yes


[14:55] <+Velax> So the region lord of the initial duchy becomes duke? You can't assign someone else?
[14:55] <@_Tom_> Velax: exactly, and no.

[14:55] <+Peristalticos> the region lord can resize estates at will, no more renegotiation right?
[14:56] <@_Tom_> Peristalticos: correct

[14:56] <+Sacha> it says there will no more imperial regions anymore. what will newly TOd regions be called then?
[14:57] <@_Tom_> Sacha: They will be assigned to a duchy automatically. How that duchy is selected if more than one is eligable has not yet been decided.

[14:56] <+Velax> So how do you end up with a duke that's not the region lord of the city/whatever? Reassignment later?
[14:57] <@_Tom_> Velax: The most common way will be a duke losing his position and the ruler appointing a new one, I guess.

[14:56] <+squirrel> how easy is it for a border Lord to go duchy shopping?
[14:58] <@_Tom_> squirrel: same as right now.

[14:56] <+lorduck> will banks be affected by this change? If a Duchy does not have a city, could there be a bank in the stronghold or townsland?
[14:58] <@_Tom_> lorduck: Banks follow the same rule as now.

[14:57] <+Kendal_Forbes> so dukes can take away lordships and rulers can take away a dukes titles?
[14:58] <@_Tom_> Kendal_Forbes: No, you can not take away ttitles once you have given them.
[14:58] <@_Tom_> at least right now
[14:58] <@_Tom_> I'm still working on government system details. In a tyranny, for example, you should of course be able to.

[14:57] <+Sacha> also, can duchies established in a townsland secede?
[14:59] <@_Tom_> Sacha: All duchies can secede

[14:57] <+Nosferatus> will disntance to capital remain or change in distance to duchy seat/capital?
[14:59] <@_Tom_> Nosferatus: distance to capital will still be distance to capital

[14:57] <+Sacha> _Tom_: may i suggest it goes to the duchy of the one initiatint the takeover?
[15:00] <@_Tom_> Sacha: I thought about that and dropped the idea.

[14:57] <+Lefanis_> What power cab an duke exercise against a lord?
[14:59] <@_Tom_> Lefanis_: A lot, if he is creative.

[14:57] <+Peristalticos> feedback: if I mess with my knight now he leaves me and I have problems to upkeep my region. with the new system if I mess with him and he leaves what do I lose? I could even gain more gold than before
[14:59] <+Telrunya> As a Lord you could gain more gold, but in total you would lose. ie. 50% of the tax gold now not collected by the Knight disappears, which might boost the Lords income, but the total gold production of the region goes down.
[15:00] <@_Tom_> Peristalticos: Very likely, you will end up with less tax income than before. But I agree that it is not immediately obvious, because my "soft incentive" system is still missing.

[15:00] <+Lefanis_> What if atownsland duchy seceded
[15:00] <@Indirik> Umm... but a duchy without a city/stronghold secedes, it doesn't have a capital. And can't make one.
[15:01] <@_Tom_> Indirik: / Lefanis_ - the capital of a realm will always have a bank. but cities provide many more advantages that you will be lacking.

[15:00] <+Nosferatus> all these quistions gives such a negative kind of vibe well actually this is one of the best changes to BM ever
[15:00] <+Nosferatus> while* [15:02] <@_Tom_> Nosferatus: I don't feel any negativity so far. Some concerns, but most of them I've had myself, so be assured that they will be addressed. [15:00] <+Telrunya> True, we're just pokng at it, but its awesome :)

[15:00] <+Velax> So a townsland could end up as a realm capital if it the duchy capital and secedes?
[15:02] <@_Tom_> Velax: there is no such thing as a duchy capital anymore. But theoretically, yes.

[15:01] <+Peristalticos> I said that just glancing at the example on the new estate wiki page. there is a 16% vacant estate and a 16% occupied one. the lord would gain more making both vacant.
[15:03] <@_Tom_> Peristalticos: yes, at first sight.
[15:04] <@_Tom_> however, he would lose total income from the region, which would hopefully mean his duke puts some pressure on him.

[15:01] <+Peristalticos> but indeed the soft incentive is cool :)
[15:02] <+Leonecoeur> My god, from the sounds of things this is similar to a few of the ideas I was tossing back and forth with someone before. So I like it.
[15:02] <+Lefanis_> Peri, but vacant is50%
[15:02] <+Velax> But you can have a duchy with no city or stronghold and have it secede.
[15:02] <+Telrunya> So a Duke that secedes chooses his Capital I bet
[15:02] <@_Tom_> Remember that not everything is in place yet.

[15:03] <+Lefanis_> Soon this scenario a towns land can haveabank? And whathappens when this realm gets a city or stronghold?
[15:05] <@_Tom_> Lefanis_: Capital will always have a bank.

[15:04] <+Nosferatus> yeah i was not talking literally but rather figurativley, the reaction on the new estate system are quistions (even though there constructive), just adding abit compliments too them
[15:04] <@_Tom_> that's what I mean: There is a lot of flexibility and interesting, creative things you can do with this system.

[15:04] <+Bedwyr> So, scenario: Duchy is created with a city and a rural. City gets TO'd by someone else, and the Duke is no longer the lord of the city. Duke then secedes...Creating a new, one-region rural realm?
[15:05] <@_Tom_> Bedwyr: No, not every duchy will be able to secede. I know I wrote that above, but in a different context. Just like you need to have a viable base to create a new duchy, you will have to have a viable base to start your own realm.

[15:04] <+Bael> With this new system, will the estimated gold outputs in regions (as listed on the region page) remain the same? (although the reality would be somewhat different...)
[15:06] <@_Tom_> Bael: yes, gold production of regions remains unchanged.

[15:04] <+squirrel> but doesn't the Duke's share come directly from the Lord's share?
[15:06] <@_Tom_> squirrel: yes
[15:07] <+squirrel> or rather, the Duke's share is a percentage of the Lord's share?
[15:08] <@_Tom_> squirrel: yes
[15:08] <+squirrel> because if that's the case, then all the Duke cares about is the Lord maximizing his own personal income
[15:09] <@_Tom_> squirrel: yes, if he only cares for money. Can you smell the realms corrupted and ruined by greed already? ;-)

[15:07] <@_Tom_> -- ok, seems questions are answered. Again, feedback and thoughts? I'm very interested in that. --
[15:07] <+Perth> Interesting, so it will be similar to how things are now because, for instance, duchies of strongholds cannot secede to form their own realms.
[15:07] <+Brant> Can the duke with the realm's capital secede or will having the capital in your duchy prevent it?
[15:07] <@_Tom_> Brant: not yet decided.

[15:08] <@LilWolf> I think the wealth and property taxes should be retained in some form.
[15:09] <+Velax> Perth, he said those can secede.
[15:09] * Lefanis_ hopes capitals can secede :)

[15:09] <+Brant> Can a realm's ruler lose his/her position if the duchy they're in seceded? Or must a ruler be the duke or have no estate?
[15:10] <@_Tom_> Brant: You can not be above and below someone else at the same time. So a ruler can not be knight of someone else, he can only be knight in his own region in his own duchy.
[15:10] <@_Tom_> Brant: that's how I solve that problem: It can never happen. :-)

[15:10] <+Brant> So what happens if a lowly knight is elected king?
[15:11] <@_Tom_> Brant: the exact consequences of that are not yet decided.

[15:09] <+Bael> While the stated gold amount will be the same, how will it ultimately affect gold output? I know that Ravening in Atamara produces 400-500 gold, and only needs one Knight and one lords estate. How would this be liable to change under the new system?
[15:10] <@_Tom_> Bael: it will produce the same amount of gold. But depending on the estate size limits, it may need more than 2 knights to collect it

[15:11] <+Bael> We will see this first on testing?
[15:12] <@_Tom_> Bael: yes. But we are planning a major update for stable, too, so that it won't be too far behind.
[15:12] <@_Tom_> But testing is for ironing out whatever bugs we miss in internal testing.

[15:12] <@_Tom_> Ok -----
[15:13] <@_Tom_> looks like it's winding down.
[15:13] <@_Tom_> Thank you all for coming.
[15:13] <@_Tom_> I will be opening the forum topic now...

[15:13] <@_Tom_> any more questions or thoughts - http://forum.battlemaster.org/index.php/topic,1235.0.html