Talk:Heen/Heenite Highlights/October '07/Mediations with Mesh

Apparently I led a group of determined Mesh nobles to attack Heen? Really? This is the first I had heard of it! Ahh... my legend grows an' I don't even have to lift a finger! Much thanks to the Dog for that. She lies like a snake in a rut but boy can she spin a tale! Soon I'll be 50 fathoms tall, wreathed in flames an' eatin' babies for breakfast every morning! Ah-hahaha! - Tarajist Balewind

Nobody said you "attacked" us, we just said you were part of a movement that aimed to. You can be whatever you want to be Tarajist, but you are no longer a Heenite...and that is all that matters. --Thrydwulf Grancourt Crazylozda 18:28, 6 October 2007 (CEST)

"We were appalled to hear that a plan to invade Heen had been executed by a group of determined noblemen under the leadership of Tarajist to invade Heen". A plan being "executed" means it was done, so actually - Martana did say that Tarajist attacked. It doesn't surprise me Thrydwulf. From the amount of crap your ruler spouts to her peers I find it hard to believe anyone of any intelligence hasn't told her to shut up and stop digging Heen into a hold. --Widfara

Well, i think she means the plan was executed, not the action. No Mesh nobles entered our lands although they did want to. Heen isn't "dug into a hold", far from it infact. --Thrydwulf Grancourt

If only you knew something about the situation, Widfara, but obviously you don't, or you would not say this. Were you there? No. Did you see scout reports of the border between Mesh and Heen? Neither. You are just a foreign general who thinks he should get involved, but since you know nothing, you're the one who needs to keep silent.

Besides, a general like you should know the following: a plan for invasion doesn't start when the troops invade. It starts with preparations. Queen Martana didn't say the invasion had been executed, she said the plan had been executed, that means preparations such as recruitment and gathering forces had been executed. And Meshians have gathered next to the border of Heen under the command of Tarajist with the intention to invade Heen's land. The plan started when the troops were gathered, and that the actual goal, namely invading Heen, wasn't achieved was simply because the mission was aborted due to other factors. Medium 18:42, 6 October 2007 (CEST)

Also, conform the definition of the word 'execute': "to follow out or carry out; do; perform". In no way 'execute' has the obligatory meaning that you should be 'successful in the task'. Execute means to start following the plan, to bring something into motion or 'execution', such as the phrase is. Lets just say, they weren't successful. Tarajist, the wiki is for informative pruposes only, by the way. If you would truly like to share something that's IC, follow the proper sources such as the messaging-system, which was ideally develloped for the very purpose of sharing. The same goes for Widfara. Foreign Curs 19:13, 6 October 2007 (CEST)

And I'd like to add, that my attempt to go from a Cold War to negotiations is the contrary of digging Heen into a hold. If I were doing so, I would surely not have contacted Pablo at all and just declared war already? How much you can try to insult me, and coming from someone who was banned for insults that would be easy for you, there is no way you can depict me as a crazy ruler, if anyone actually bothered to read through the messages. Which crazed dog would ever try to reason to end a possible war? The one that could invade Mesh right now, small as our army is, and still have by far the superior force? Mesh is dearly destroyed right now, and a crazy dog would have taken advantage of that. But guess what, I'm reasoning with your ruler instead to prevent a war that Heen would most likely win due to our advantage. From a warmongering person's kind of view, that is insane, namely not attacking but reasoning instead. Foreign Curs 19:29, 6 October 2007 (CEST)

(OOC: Don't take this OOC. And since last I heard you weren't the definitive authority on what the wiki is for, I'm going to disregard that and continue with this IC discussion/argument. The1exile)

"Were you there? No. Did you see scout reports of the border between Mesh and Heen? Neither. You are just a foreign general who thinks he should get involved, but since you know nothing, you're the one who needs to keep silent."

Wrong. I was a ruler, who regrettably had to listen to Martana's pathetic whinging. As for the plan being executed not actually ebign executed, then it's not really a plan for invasion is it? It's more like a plan of a plan. Saying "They planned to invade Heen" is not the same as saying "They executed a plan to invade Heen". Maybe "They executed a plan to reach the planning stage of invading Heen"? Doesn't quite have the same sensationalist value, I suppose. --Widfara

Being a ruler does not make you allknowing about everything, even I don't pretend that, or do you do know all about the incident we're talking about? Clearly not, because you speak of a plan of a plan; well, no, the plan was complete and perfected, the initial attack was set/executed, but the battle was lost. That means 'executed but not successful'. I think these few sentences sum up what I mean pretty well... Foreign Curs 20:17, 6 October 2007 (CEST)

So, according to you, they attacked but lost? So you're disagreeing with your estimable general who said, see for yourself, "Nobody said you "attacked" us"? Make up your minds already. --Widfara 20:26, 6 October 2007 (CEST)

Indeed, lets just try to win the discussion with such a very strong argument. Foreign Curs 23:26, 6 October 2007 (CEST)

"We were appalled to hear that a plan to invade Heen had been executed by a group of determined noblemen under the leadership of Tarajist to invade Heen. Indeed, beyond the knowledge of you, Chancellor Pablo. At least I hope. The only reason that this plan wasn’t successful was because Heen coincidentally destroyed this invading force in Naraka and Mokut before they could enter our lands." - Taken from the article. I would like to point you to the June edition: June '07 The specific article named Ambushed in Naraka. This would explain why the Meshians were unable to carry out their plan... before they entered our lands. --Thrydwulf Grancourt

Personally, from the reading, I don't think Tarajist et al. technically executed the plan to invade Heen if they never actually entered Heenite soil. I think I understand what you mean though. Perhaps it would be more clear if you said:

"We were appalled to hear that a group of determined noblemen under the leadership of Tarajist, were plotting and preparing to invade Heen. Indeed, beyond the knowledge of you, Chancellor Pablo, at least I hope..."

or since this is a quote from Martana, you could leave it the way it is and put a footnote at the end saying that the noble's under Tarajist did not in fact execute their plans and Martana actually meant they were in the process of planning.

But then again this isn't my paper, but either of those minor alterations should suffice to clarify the passage. --Alex 21:26, 6 October 2007 (CEST)

As long as we understand that the intent was malicious, and as we all know the saying "it's the thought that counts". No matter how poorly the thought is executed, it's still the thought that counts. And it went further than Naraka. Foreign Curs 23:26, 6 October 2007 (CEST)

There was a plan to plan? Now we is gettin' complex! I hadn't even heard about that plan either! The only plan I knew about was Heen plannin' on takin' some Mesh regions for themselves. I was eagerly lookin' forward to the attempt so I could knock the Dog an' her thug, Medium, around some on the battlefield and send 'em home with their tails between their legs. That was the only plan I was privvy to. Oh, that an' the smear campaign against me name. How is that goin' for ya? The lies commin' thick an' heavy from the Dog's mouth so it must be in full swing, she shoulda just taken the duel right at the start an' none of this would be an issue instead of sickin' her pet thug on me with a ban. Propaganda rather than action be a decent refuge for a coward. Speakin' of gatherin' at a border for obvious resaons that ain't about assaultin' a neighbor, what is Heen doin' gatherin' at the borders between Mesh, Heen and the Vlaanderwhatsits? - Tarajist Balewind

30k Daimons marching around Mokut and Tor. Well, i say marching around - more like sitting on their asses. That's a good enough reason to be protecting our border region. We haven't moved out of our borders into Mesh lands, yet i can see a knight of Joppo currently in Watto. We thought plans of plans might be too complex for you Tarajist. That's why we explained it wasn't a plan of a plan. The first plan we heard of was "rogue regions are for the taking" when the undead plundered Latlan and Mesh stood there waiting to pounce... --Thrydwulf Grancourt

To add from the NEW Pablo's first reply..."On the anti-Heen faction of Mesh: I am aware of there existence, and I am keeping a close eye on them." lies lies lies hey?! --Thrydwulf Grancourt

Ahhh... so ya started slanderin' MY name with no good reason then! Thinkin' Danny's quote (taken out of context by the way. Perhaps you should include the rest of that message? Like the part where the undead were trying to get Mesh to take rogue regions an' our Chancellor Danny was tellin' 'em NO.) was somehow related to ME. You claimed ya were me friend at SOME point, Thrydwulf, but that be a load of bull droppings because ya ain't done nothin' but slander me name since I was weasled out of yer kingdom by the cowardly Dog, Martana an' her thug, Medium. About them Daimons. Yer little force would be crushed by them in an instant. Are ya sure yer forces gathered there aren't just sittin' around in confusion because the plan was to head into Vlaanderen territories and then them Daimons showed up? Ya seem to forget that I was part of Heen's Inner Council and privvy to allot of information concerning future plans. I know damn well how Heen works an' the fact I am so free with tellin' people about it must irk you plenty! Skeevy villans don't work so well when their plans is shown for all the world to see. - Tarajist Balewind

Whatever Tarajist. If you don't even read what we say, then don't add anything either. Besides, why am I talking to a criminal instead of the man I'm supposed to talk to, your ruler namely? I'm in negotiations and I will surely address Pablo about this conversation. I'd love to continue this chitchat, but as I said, you're not the ruler of Mesh, are you? Dang now, eh Tarajist? Foreign Curs 11:15, 7 October 2007 (CEST)

Oh, Martana! The dog speaks! Barking at me as usual I see. Be warned... I do bark back, you should know this. My returning your fire is what got me banned from Heen in the first place. Well I ain't in your ill gotten kingdom no more, Tart, why don't you go scurrying back behind Medium with your tail between your legs like you did last time? You lie like a snake in a rut. Your 'Criminals of Heen' message (that Marshal Thrydwulf was so kind to share with the world) is so full of fiction you should have released it as a trilogy. Your percieved timeline esspecially is absolutley skewed! For starters you claim I broke a law that wasn't even written at the time, Code of Nobility my arse. Second, there ain't even 30 people in yer kingdom there now who were there when I was unlawfully banned by your personal thug much less 30 people that actually agreed with you an' Medium steeming up to get rid of me.You slandered my name to other realms back then and then cowardly ran from a duel of satisfation. I'm sure Kagurati's situation is just as full of your lies as mine was. Oh... and to illustrate just how skewed your timeline and story is to all who have the time to simply look at a couple family history books: Larkin was banned from Heen quite a bit after I was. This I know because he and I had a chance to have some good long chats down here in Mesh before he ended his life in disgrace and sorrow brought about by your mechinations. Martana, You are a disgrace to all monarchs everywhere. - Tarajist Balewind

Tarajist, you're a newt. Foreign Curs 20:28, 7 October 2007 (CEST)

High Marshal Tarajist, please act your age. You were never one for returning fire, you were the kindling accepting whatever spark there happened to be around at the time. So here's what's going to happen. Firstly, i'm going to reply to your messages in a civil way. I'm going to point out why you are a fool using your own words and letters, and then i'm going to unravel your arguments (if you can actually call them an argument). Now i've just given you those first lines of introduction to get you warmed up for the good bit, because we all know how hard it is for you to concentrate on anything sane.

Heen has never confused you with the ex-Chancellor Danny Tator. We know full well who you are Tarajist. Nothing has been taken out of context my dear. I have done no slandering of your name. Please inform me where i have spoken ill of you, find me proof. It is you who digs your own grave - It upset me back in Heen, but it does not upset me now! Your own words are befouling your name, Heen plays no part in the words slipping from your tongue, or from the attitude you have presented all around.

I have included in this edition of the new Heenite Highlights, that dear conversation we had not so many days ago Tarajist. I will leave it to the readers to decide whether this tone you take with Heen now is deserved of the punishment you received from Heen for using the same aggression against the Monarchy all those months ago. I would also like to inform you, that of the council members present during your banishment from Heen, only one of those remains - our Queen, who remained on the throne despite the undead's requests. Tarajist, you personally do not know how Heen feels now, or what we talk about in our council. So no, it does not "irk" us that you proceed to make a bad name of yourself.

Your continuous onslaught of insults is only confirming that when Medium rid our realm of you, it was a good thing. You are not breaking Heen's code of nobility, you are breaking every code of nobility. Insulting a superior, indeed, insulting a Monarch of a realm, when your OWN Monarch is currently in peaceful talks with her - really heroic. You do not "return fire" Tarajist. You swear and cuss, using a variety of insults and made-up words and phrases to degrade somebody trying to include you into the argument so you back up your side. "You are a dog, a tart" is not a good come back to "We will ban you from this realm if you continue to use that language infront of the rulers". Much the same as accusing Heen of lying, when you can provide no evidence to suggest otherwise, just another string of insults about your past differences with certain nobles.

Tarajist, you are doing absolutely nothing to help the situation between Heen and Mesh. Infact, you are making it "hella worse" - attemtping to incite us by stirring up the past. Larkin was banned because he was found to be part of a group of nobles planning a rebellion. We are aware he was banned a long time after you were, and for very different reasons - all recorded in the HH.

Now feel free to reply to this, but i asked you nicely once in our previous discussion to cut out the foul language - show me you are actually a better person than you make yourself out to be. Actually, don't show me, show the continent... --Thrydwulf Grancourt

Dear Twit Thrydwulf, you are a twit. I feel free to call you a twit because you call me a fool and all nobles of Mesh 'Low born'. Tit for tat. Mesh is governed by a Chancellor, not a monarch. Martana wasn't the Queen at the time (as that protest against her so obviously showed) she was an incompetent High Marshal. I have not used any foul language just cutting and astute jibes. The only 'inclusion' I am being given in the argument is someone pointing fingers behind me back. Twit, you serve a Dog and I'm simply here to point that out to you in the only forum I have a voice. As I do not have 'proof' of Heen's plotting against Mesh since Scion was king and Martana's insipid desire to 'unite the desert' besides my words and what I had heard many times while a member of Heen, niether do you have any proof to the contrary so this is basically all boilin' down to a 'He said me said' situation. You have been willfully and wantonly brainwashed and deafened, Thrydwulf, by your Dog's rhetoric and barking for so long you can't tell truth from fiction anymore. If you desire to continue to spout out drivel then please read through what you have just said here and compare it to the messages in this very article from your Dog, you will find some shocking contradictions between the two. Part of spouting out mindles propaganda and heresay is to be consistant... or atleast not completley contradict your master. Learn from the master of bull, Thrydwulf, she is your queen! - Tarajist Balewind

That's where you are wrong Tarajist. I have my own opinion, and my own voice. My last message to you here does not explain anything of the situation between Heen and Mesh, no, it explains how you have and are behaving. You can feel free to call me anything you like Tarajist because your words mean nothing. You do not argue your point at all, just say that we are wrong. Infact, my last post which like i say, merely points out why you are a bad person (or maybe just deluded and mad - who knows?) you say contradicts my Queen? And then you say i'm brainwashed by her? Forgive me...am i brainwashed and following her exactly or am i contradicting her? Or really, do i just have my own voice? You see Tarajist, you take it so personally it is a delight to argue against you. You draw people in so they continue to berrate you until you have dug a hole so deep you can't see the point any more, just that you hate somebody for something. I do not know what this "bull" is you talk of, and she is by no means my "master" (nor my mistress, but that's a different story ;) hehe). It has not boiled down to a "he said she said" argument at all. I diverted from that tack and started to pick you to pieces, now come back at me with something other than "you're a twit who's been brainwashed" and we'll be getting somewhere. --Thrydwulf Grancourt

OOC: I know this is all in-character, but aren't these characters supposed to be nobles? The name-calling is getting a bit thick and the discussion decidedly not befitting a noble. (I will leave out the poor spelling, since not everyone is a native speaker of English.) --OOC Habap 17:25, 8 October 2007 (CEST)