User talk:TanSerrai

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Would this happen to be the same person who played Tan o'Kammar in Riombara a while ago? If so, the realm invites you to return, and will welcome you back :-) --Anaris 3 February 2006 01:24 (CET)

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I read what you put on Anaris' user talk page. I am glad to see you have returned. Look forward to once again seeing you in Riombara. Hope you iwll know however, that we have grown to some slightly new customs. I am a heavy duelist (Character of Ghostly), We have several new Dukes that were once just normal TLs that you will surely remember. However, we opened an Academy in rememberance of the name of Tan o'Kammar, one day hoping for his return. I think our pleas are finally being met. ;) --- Ghostly

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Glad you will be returning. I hope you'll be doing a Riombara page just like you are Tarelium to fill in some black history records. ;) --- Ghostly

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Am looking forward to return to Riombara very much - and aye, I'd like to write down those parts of it's history that I do remember...glad you are still with Riombara ;) --- TanSerrai

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Why would I leave? Its such a great realm! --- Ghostly

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Hey TanSerrai, you are missing quite a bit of History in regards to Eno Chia/Luz de Bia lol. I can help you if you want, but you simply have to promise not to twist my words, and state them as are.

Things I can help you with:

More Info on why Eno Chia went to war with "Riombara"

More Info on Ghrenk's relocation--it was I who brokered the entire agreement

More Info on Enweil's involvements

More Info on Volghor's involements

More Info on to why Luz de Bia was created

More Info as to why Riombara STILL exists--yes, she was defeated, she surrendered, and was SPARED by the people of Luz de Bia. I can give you inside info on that because LDP wanted to wipe them out, but a whole democratic process was started, and the people voted in favor of exiling Riombara to the Islands instead...and LDB did just that.

More Info on to WHAT was SUPPOSED to happen on that Island had LDB not left because the gods said the Land would be Consumed...the veterans of LDB left towards Taselak on the SWI...so her Kingdom was left in the hands of mostly inexperienced TLs, and the Kingdom's destiny was forever changed. I wish I knew what happened with Luz de Bia...she was supposed to be one of the most powerful realms on that Island, with the other most powerful realms as her allies, all with the intention of promoting stability, and safety..under an allied world-order.


Contact me if you are interested, I reside in Abbington now, in the very place that reminds me of "home," Luz de Bia.

I would say that Riombara exists again, rather than that she still exists, as the realm was destroyed during the First Invasion.
Luz de Bia is currently somewhat neutral in the various conflicts that have come up since the Second Invasion, but Riombara (under my leadership) has been cautiously attempting to make friends with them. --Anaris 6 February 2006 22:29 (CET)

Amazing lol. I thought that Riombara still existed, like Luz de Bia does...like I mentioned...I can only help with all things pertaining to Luz and Riombara relations--and the neighbors around us--to the point of my departure. I just recently learned that Luz de Bia was a democracy...I will turn in my grave for that one.


Herkan d'Serrai does send greetings, Lady Doc's Biatch!

You honour my dead father Tan o'Kammar with your offer of additional information. However I cannot guarantee that all that you send will be used word for word. Or how much of your information can be included. I can, however guarantee that your words won't be twisted. But I'll let my father speak....

(A distant hollow voice can be heard)

Greetings, Lady!

It is correct that you did leave the realm you did create right before the first undead invasion. However, you do your nobles injustice if you call them inexperienced. They managed to survive the first undead invasion and their diplomatic contacts did take a turn for the better after you left. Danang Isig was a noble king, capable of showing greatness even to enemies - a trait that we never saw you exhibit.

As to your plans: We did know full well what you intended. A strong superrealm, spanning the whole southeast. Allied with other superrealms, resulting in an enforced, stiffling peace. What might be difficult to grasp, is that we did not _like_ your plans. Neither being ruled by you, nor having your vision of a realm dominating all.

In my experience, troopleaders who are free to speak up, who share in the fate of a realm instead of only following orders will bring a realm to greatness. Not simple iron rule. This is where Riombara and Luz did differ - and this is why we did survive your aggression.

And you did let Riombara survive not through any generosity, but because noone but you saw any use in continuing your war.

And now that we are talking about this....(the hollow voice has been getting fainter and fainter until it can't be heard anymore)

(a slightly embarrased Herkan speaks up again)

...Well...my father always was a bit longwinded, I fear it has not gotten better after his death...if your offer of additional information still stands, I would very much like to accept it.

TanSerrai 7 February 2006 17:44 (CET)


Your father I will not forget, Good ol Tan Senior ;) Many opposed my vision, my will, and my goals....but they were all defeated. Those that shared in the belief that world peace through armed security was a good thing, prospered, and those that did not...perished. Those that were left behind when the Vanguard joined me on a ship towards Taselak--the very internal organs of the realm--were younger and inexperienced, and that allowed the changes to take place..a Democracy...mutual peace instead of accepted Mercy with Riombara...all these things, went against everything Luz de Bia stood for. However because my elite council and followers left Luz de Bia, we were able to mold Taselak on the South-West Island with our principles, and strong sense of moral discipline..and were able to defeat the war god there, and were allowed to go free...those were bloody days...but I will help you as best I can. You will get nothing short of the blunt truth, however cold it may appear to be, I live a certain way, a way that most others cannot understand, but my soul will always be: uncorruptable.


Hey tan, you have a LOT of errors--or you purposely are propagating Riombara propaganda--about Luz de Bia's involvements, and my own people's thoughts about our war.

To clarify:

1. Balin grew sick of Riombara, he complained to me every day, about how worthless they were, always hiding like rats. He finally decided he hated Riombara, and wanted to help destroy them...so he joined our ranks after his betrayal to Riombara

2. Luz de Bia NEVER turned a TL away, be he former enemy or former ally, it was our OPEN BORDER policy. We had several former Riombarians in our ranks, and former Eno Chians...none were turned away, all were given a chance--very rare nowadays for a realm to do that.

3. My people never questioned our war with Riombara, and we /did/ force Riombara to a surrender, and did permanently occupy your city, we just couldn't successfully take it over for quite sometime because the city hated us too much.

4. I CHOSE to put the fate of Riombara to a popular vote, although if I had decided to erase them from the Island, my people would not of rebelled against me...or hated me...we would have simply done what we said we were going to do. What I did instead, was argue why we could spare Riombara, and why we could wipe them out. I did not vote. I simply listened to what my people said, and finally, it was decided, that Luz de Bia would be an even GREATER realm if we showed our enemies mercy, and if they accepted the lifetime non-aggression pact, and if ever violated, would result in the genocide of the Riombarian people.

Aside from that, it looks great...although you also did not emphasize nearly enough why Luz de Bia was formed, you do know that we were formed BECAUSE Riombar was formed and VIOLATED and agreement with Eno Chia?


Heheh, #2 is kind of amusing, as that is now exactly what I have made Riombara like...and it's getting me some flak from the international community, after I took in someone who caused some trouble in the northwest. We've also taken in a bunch of the refugees from the destroyed Midas Chia, on their way out to other continents, with whom we never had a good relationship... --Anaris 8 February 2006 19:08 (CET)

(The hollow voice can once more be heard)

Thank you for this information Lady!

As to 1) That only does confirm my opinion of Balins character. Being able to complain and whine about a group of extremely dedicated and capable nobles is....well, everyone should judge this on his own.

As to 2) I do not care about the fact that you took him in - but I do care about the fact that you did gladly use his treachery.

As to 3) I had several messages Luz' nobles testifying that they saw no sense in this anymore. Months before you made peace.

As to 4) I do not doubt this - but I see the reasons you chose to put this to a vote in a different light.

So far I see no reason to change anything in my history. I see even less mistakes....of course it is written from the view of a Riombaran noble. I admit this freely and in writing - and my son chides me about it every now and then. If you want a completely impartial history of Beluaterra, you'll have to go elswhere. But I have to admit that I resent your insinuation that I have written this history as propaganda. Rest asured, if I wanted to do this, those passages would look quite a bit different.

Tan o'Kammar (being close to invisible) 8 February 2006 20:40 (CET)

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Sorry, I meant no insult...realms are free to explain things from their point of view, or they can explain them as they were.

RE: 1. Indeed, I do not know why Balin did not like Riombara, because the only reason why LdB was formed was because Riombara broke an agreement, and Eno Chia was not going to let it slide...it became LdB's task to deal with the treachery, since her being gone with 1/3 of Eno Chia's mobile forces FAR in the West to start a Colony...left Eno Chia stretched thin...and Riombara unchecked...I bet that is one detail you don't know, and that current Luz De Bia affiliates don't know either lol. Anyways, LdB didn't hate Riombara, we simply had to execute a justice handed down by Eno Chia long ago...and in the process...Talius agreed to merge Eno Chia with Luz de Bia because we had good ties with Enweil and Volghor, essentially, leaving Riombara completely surrounded, and reducing the possibility of instability on "our" chunk of the Island. If my people hated Riombara as much as Balin did, you would not of been spared lol.

RE: 2. We were enemies, and we wanted the war to end as soon as possible, as it had already stretched too long, and taking your city was proving difficult due to the coding in place at the time. Balin doing what he did helped us break your spine, but being in the position we were in, we simply wanted to end the war with you...it was because of Balin's actions that I decided to give you guys a chance to Live at all, and that chance was executed in the form of a Public realm-wide Vote. All agreed that given the circumstances, Mercy was reasonable, and made us better anyway--IF Riombara accepted our generous terms, which she did, thank god. If Balin had not done what he did, Riombara would have perished forever, later down the road, because I had no reason to show mercy to a foe that betrayed Eno Chia.

RE: 3. Remember, Luz De Bia had an open border policy, nobles questioning the war were NEWER and NOT originally LDB members. It was their right to oppose the direction the realm was going, but in the end, their hurt feelings would have mattered litle. Your "sample" of LdB messages opposing the war with Riombara, is skewed at best, and if you had been in the realm, you'd have known that...so I am telling you, so it is your choice whether or not you want to explain Riombara's history for what it is--or for what it was not.

RE 4. See above RE2, that is why it was put to a vote...I do not fear my people, and they do not fear me. I may of been hated in Riombara, but I was loved in Eno Chia and Luz de Bia...and respected by various realms. Ghrenk lived only because they accepted our relocation offer, and we kept our word, and did not sack their city while they were away...we promised they'd be able to use the city so long as they had to--IE until they were able to colonize. They were successful on the first shot, but they NEVER handed the city over to you to "spite" me. Someone TOOK IT OVER. I forget if it was Riombara, Irombar or Rhines....but I know it was taken over, and for whatever reasons, we failed to properly scout the area...so in a sense, Ghrenk did screw us over by not telling us you were taking the city because when we saw your realm GET the city, we were shocked. Screwed by our own trust of Ghrenk and either of the 3 realms I mentioned above.

I know it may not make sense that it was one of the three above, but remember, when Riombara was created, it had to annex several regions first...so it could have happened during that annex period, that either of the 3 took it, but we all know where it ended up: Riombara.

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I guess you didnt want to keep that link ot the Wispen Battle Report then? -- Petterson 24 February 2006 12:32 (CET)

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I re-added your links - I did erase them by accident. Thanks for the spelling corrections, too - always a good thing! TanSerrai 24 February 2006 13:54 (CET)

Style Guide

First, I'd like to thank you for the histories you've done. As a fellow BM historian myself, your information in Riombara, Talerium, and supporting information for other realms has often proved invaluable in piecing together some ignored pieces of history. However, I would like to point out/ask something of you.

The Style Guide encourages using headers as short titles that outline what its about. It seems you use them to accomplish bolded text. I obviously don't know what is in your head so that is why I'm asking instead of assuming I'm correct about using them in that form. In the Beluaterran Map Archives I went ahead and changed it to proper bold syntax, but I didn't touch your family page as that is more your domain. However, I would point out that the Great Writings section doesn't really outline anything, but just lists writings. Essentially, I'm just curious why you did it in this format and if there is another way to accomplish what you were intending. --Ethan Lee Vita (Talk), Editor and Community Manager 17:26, 28 December 2009 (UTC)

First, thanks for your praise - I am positively shocked that someone knows that some of the writings of both Talerium and Riombara are mine. Second, I only have very basic knowledge about wiki syntax - thus thanks for any ideas on how to make my pages better looking or at least conforming to the general syntax (thanks for correcting the CamelCase of the Map Archives, will try to avoid that mistake...). Third, yes, I am using headers in the family page to have an entry in the Toc and to give the whole page some structure (=grouping historical writings in the first section, the map archives in the second and the correspondence in the third). Having this text bolded is an additional benefit but not my main aim. In addition this is still a work-in-progress. My aim is to make both maps and quite a few fragments accessible to the public, enabling writers (mostly me I guess but maybe others as well) to add a link to a certain map a textfragment into their histories. Bottomline: I hope I answered your question - and if you have any suggestions, I am more than happy to listen...TanSerrai 21:47, 28 December 2009 (UTC)
I go through a lot of history(tiki, wiki, IRC achives, interviews, non-BM websites, various archives of messages players have given me) so I tend to find out who does what. Second, thats fine, I'll just bug you if something is off. :P Third, thats okay, its a bit of an unconventional usage though. If you could write a short description under each header, it would be appreciated. I'm looking forward to your map archives though, I'd be especially excited to see anything from mid-05(when I started) or older. --Ethan Lee Vita (Talk), Editor and Community Manager 23:58, 28 December 2009 (UTC)