Talk:The Giblot Gestapo Gazette

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An end to the renaming talk please

Meta:User-Editors Talk#Giblot Gestapo Gazette

Tom does not support a name change. Leave the Gazette as it is now please --Revan 09:00, 20 January 2008 (CET)
Would you kindly post the relevant discussion with Tom? I'd be interested in seeing that. My side is, I have family members (Asker and Lilian Schou, from Moen, in case you think I'm inventing this) still living in Denmark who helped smuggle Jews across the water to Sweden while the Gestapo hunted them down. I'm curious what Tom's reason is. --jmadsen
Look, this is not a nazi propaganda rag, and the people who built and made this paper were not bloody well hunting jews across europe either. I fail to see how attacking the name of a fictional newspaper made for a fictional game will make any difference at all to what has happened in the past. And please, could you start leaving your signature on messages Jmadsen? --Revan 09:35, 20 January 2008 (CET)
No one said that they were. No one knows that they aren't, either. There is (was) a player in Falasan who's player website in the game is a link to a poorly drawn Nazi cartoon where Gestapo agents run around killing N-'s and Jews. This didn't have to be a big deal - it is a name that doesn't fit in with the game atmosphere and was deemed offensive by more than a few people who asked them to change the name, and they wouldn't. At the same time that Tom is deleting characters on Dwilight because their name doesn't fit the mood of the game, and players are getting vulgarity penalties for saying things like "big balls". Characters change lords, realms, classes, etc. Why can't a newspaper change its name under these conditions? --jmadsen
I can't believe this discussion has come this far. This paper has been called the "Giblot Gestapo Gazette" for years now and not one person complained until just a couple days ago. And then everyone jumped up on the bandwagon! Personally I see absolutely nothing wrong with the name. It is clearly meant in a tongue and cheek sort of way. Considering how the paper is OOC considered the evil side of Giblot it is well named. Were the facist secret police of Nazi gernamy evil? Sure. Does this try to deny that? No. Should we human beings stick our collective heads in the sand and turn away from anything that might remind us of our dark past? Hell no! We should open our eyes and learn something about it so as to not let it happen again! What did I do when I saw the word Gestapo? I went to www.dictionary.com and looked it up. Good ole' education keeps us moving forward on this dirt ball! If words frighten and offend people then please stop reading and do not teach your children to read for they may read something someday that may offend. Of-course they will also miss many of the finer things in life but why risk it? Fight literacy now! End the danger of reading! -Balewind
Scroll down to the Naming section. The first complaint came 2 May 2006 09:54

--jmadsen

Scroll through the paper's history to the part where it was started in 2004. Either way, who cares. If you don't like words on a screen then don't read. -Balewind
Because ignoring them was what people did in pre-War Germany, and look where it lead. So anywhere I see it, I shout loudly. Drag it out in public and shame them. I'm not personally "offended" by the name, I'm offended that it's allowed to exist. If you don't like my complaints, don't read them.

--jmadsen

I'm offended that you exist and continue to change something that Daniel made back when he was still playing. This is newspaper is part of Giblots history, and I've never heard anyone in the realm complain about it. So if you don't want to see it or hear about it. Then don't go bloody well looking at it.

And thanks to you I think I'll start adding more editions to it. It would be nice to know that in Sadi's death, he still has a grip on Giblot.

Just because I think your complaints are groundless doesn't mean I'm not going to read them. I'm not one of those 'stick your head in the sand' types I mentioned earlier. I see why you are complaining, I just don't think you are getting the tongue in cheek sort of light this paper is mocking the 'Gestapo' in. How better to enforce that the writers and viewpoints of this paper are written by evil people with an evil point of view than to allude it to one of history's most evil organisations? If we covered up all references to the Gestapo throughout history and forgot they ever existed... THAT would be the real crime. Because then we would learn nothing from our mistakes and would be doomed to repeat them. Censorship was a tool used very well by facists, remember how the Nazi loved to burn books? There are many things throughout history and mentioned in this game that would be offensive to millions of people throughout history, I think perhaps the fact that this particular thing is still recent in history that it may be less acceptable to some? Personally I saw something in this game that I found somehow painfull myself. The old Heen banner had these great orange crosses on it that made me think of religious oppresion and violence going on to this day in Ireland (The orange cross being a symbol of the fundamentalist catholic sect). I felt no need to complain about it though as I did not think the intent was to cause harm. History is all around us and much of it was painfull. That does not mean we should bury it to cover up our shame. Neither should we take such things so seriously in a game. -Balewind

Two issues a month?

This won't really be relevant until the wiki goes live but I thought I'd put the question down now to all the future reporters of the Gazette heh, so i don't forget >.<

Anyway, considering the huge volumes of news that have been recorded in the last few months, perhaps it would be wise to make two issues a month in the future, separating them into Early(1st two weeks of the month) and Late Editions(last two weeks of the month.) It would prevent any readers getting bogged down in too much text and perhaps will provide a tidier appearance overall. Thoughts? --Revan August 24, 2005 01:27 (CEST)

I agree with you Revan. By the way, how is death treating ya? --Shaman September 1 2005
That's Partially explained here ;) and yes I think next month We'll be dividing the papers up that way. Giblots got way too much stuff going on lately heh.. --Revan September 2, 2005 02:24 (CEST)

Two Giblot Newspapers?

Considering that there are fairly even Good and Evil groups of people in Giblot. And that the GGG is primarily a more evil orientated newspaper. I was thinking perhaps it would be a good idea to conjure up another paper for Giblot that dealt with events in a good way.?


For Example:


  • GGG - Random embarked upon yet another delightful act of cruelty today! This time he injured 17 people in one go. Reports are hazy but most are believed to have been children - kids are brats anyway! Thanks for ridding us of yet another blight upon our lands Random!
  • Rival Paper - Random went on a sick rampage today where he injured 17 innocents. How long will it be until the Council cracks down on this murderer? We simply just don't know how Random sleeps at night with all this on his conscience!


Of course articles won't be identical or anything but with two papers and two different sets of news there are both points of view available and they won't end up clashing terribly with each other that way


Thoughts?


--Revan September 11, 2005 03:20 (CEST)

Naming....

You're comfortable with naming your virtual organisation, after one of the most infamous, inhumane organisations of all time ?

Did it occur to you that there is a very good chance of offending many people ? I'm not as such offended, but I do find this distasteful, but if this organisation had played a part in my family history, ( with hundreds of European players, it's inevitable that someone has this organisation as a real part of their family history) I certainly wouldn't see any humour in it. mcsporran 2 May 2006 09:54 (CEST)

Sadi SaDiablo gave this newspaper it's name way back on the tiki a couple or so years ago now, so blame Sadi for the perhaps poor naming. However I have kept this newspaper updated for over a real life year now and well..this is the first comment I've seen on the name - Revan May 2, 2006 11:13 (CEST)
I support the idea of changeing the name for RL reasons. Too many people suffered from this organisation to make any "fun" of it. It is of the same bad taste and lack of tact as Prince Harry disguised for Hitlerjugend for carneval party. Or a techno party "Houseschwitz"... Anna 01:28, 27 May 2006 (CEST)
Just wanted to add my voice to the people disappointed with the choice in names, and the fact that you still haven't done anything about it. -- Jmadsen 02:02, December 14, 2007
Firstly, just to say that this paper has been defunct from September 2006. Objections to the name or not it's not really being put out there anymore. Secondly, the word 'gestapo' is being used here in a colloquial, pop-culture type way. The GGG was pretty tyrannical in it's way, evil, very certain of it's own opinions. Thats why the name works out. Yes, what the real Gestapo did is deplorable, but arguably the same is true of the behaviour of the Editor of this paper, who was pretty much a cannibal and someone who got his kicks out of the butchery of many scribes and peasants. This was quite a dark newspaper.. --Revan 12:06, 14 December 2007 (CET)
That's the most asinine thing I've ever heard. 'Pop culture'? I wonder if Tom knows about this paper - considering that it's probably against the law in Germany to use this kind of name. Most references to Hitler, the Nazi Party, etc. are. You should realize how deeply offensive this is to most people and have the courtesy of just removing it without trying to defend something this bad. --Jmadsen
'Yes, what the real Gestapo did is deplorable, but arguably the same is true of the behaviour of the Editor of this paper, who was pretty much a cannibal and someone who got his kicks out of the butchery of many scribes and peasants. This was quite a dark newspaper..'
Basically your saying that because the editor role played himself as a cannibal and a scribe killer in a virtual GAME, that it is okay to don the name of the organization who sponsored the REAL LIFE slaughter of millions of Jews, Russians, Gypsies, disabled, political prisoners and others by the SS and the Gestapo?
'Secondly, the word 'gestapo' is being used here in a colloquial, pop-culture type way..'
Obviously naming the paper after the Gestapo is okay because these days, naming things after literal death machines is cool. Perhaps you support the genocide of jews, in a hip, pop-culture type way. You'll find that many people don't.
One last thing, I have no doubt the statistics of 'million' has no effect on you guys. Hey, I've killed millions of Nazis in those WWII shootem'ups right?
Heres an exercise : Construct a lifestory of an imaginary person. His childhood, college life, marriage, worklife... Dwell on this image, of a successful everyday man baking bread or selling pencils for a minute. Now picture him getting captured by the SS and sent to a death camp and being gassed. Add some shrieks of anguish for good measure. Good, you imagined the life and death of one person. Quite a story, ended rather abruptly. Now realize theres over a billion more just like him, whether shot on the battlefield, starved or worked to death or gassed. Perhaps you can imagine the enourmity and vileness of the Nazis now. If you can't do it again until you either do, or reach one billion. Because quite Frankly, there is no excuse for having a name like 'Gestapo'.
Get rid of the name. --Anabellium 02:52, 19 January 2008 (CET)
Oh, I'm sorry. Obviously I should remember the events of 60-70 years ago, when countless millions died for land and conquest, with a little more relish and empathy. Or perhaps not. It's depressing enough, and nothing I will ever do or experience will ever give me some feeling of what those times were like, or how horrifying it was to see such a massive waste of lives. Better to live in the present and look to a brighter future I think.
Anyway, I did not name this paper. Sadi did. Yet I defend it because it has held the name all this time, even survived being moved from the tiki (so I assume Tom does know about the name. Afterall, he did invite the newspaper editors to join the wiki and transfer their papers here a whole month before opening it to the public.) More to the point though, there are countless modern day 'gestapos' functioning all over the world. Maybe not so overtly in the western world, but quite obviously elsewhere. So to be honest, I see little point in trying to hide the memory of just one of these depraved organisations. It does little good and doesn't change the fact that humanity still hasn't learned. And it is not like by reading this paper you are reading nazi propaganda either. This is just a fictional newspaper, in a fictional game. So why the crusade? --Revan 04:32, 19 January 2008 (CET)

Boohoo, people die and you deal with it. This is about a game, and if you were really so worried the slaughter of people and culture. You wouldn't be playing a game that simulates the exact same thing. My solution to your feuck'd up problem, go kill everyone in the whole world, then you think will be solved. And the continued cycle of humans killing things will finally end. --Sanguinius 04:32, 19 January 2008 (CET)

Yeah, thats right. Forget the fecking Jews and go kill some more people. Screw the Jews right? Theres lots more organizations to kill them! --Anabellium 06:19, 19 January 2008 (CET)
I hardly think personal attacks are warranted here. It's a tiny little page on the internet, and all your shrieking and foot-stomping isn't going to change anyone's mind. Neither is juvenile sarcasm, for that matter. Discuss the matter rationally, or don't discuss it at all. -- Murakama 08:36, 19 January 2008 (CET)

Stopped publishing?

Bring back the bloodthirsty, gory and downright interesting stories of the GGG! :) --The1exile 22:24, 17 November 2006 (CET)

What Tom Really Said

As usual, what I say and what people say I said are different things. So in a nutshell:

  • Yes, the name is bad taste
  • Yes, it isn't very medieval
  • No, the name isn't illegal in Germany or any such nonsense

I still think people get way too upset about words all the time. Listen, PC junkies, one of my grandfathers was hanged in a Nazi prison. I can still write "Hitler" without throwing a fit, because I can differentiate between a real death and a collection of letters on a screen. If people would spend 10% of the time they fret over words and phrases instead doing something good, the world would be a much more enjoyable place.

So, if the owners of the GGG want to rename the paper, I'd say that's a good decision because of reasons 1 and 2 above. And if they don't want to, then that's ok with me as well because in the end it's just a game.

--Tom 15:43, 20 January 2008 (CET)