Talk:Dwilight/Geographic Features

General

I invite anyone and everyone to edit this. Only criteria: IF there is a source, use it. Good sources are region descriptions of nearby regions, existing data linked to from the Dwilight page concerning geography and culture, realm pages, etc. If and only if no name can be found, make one up. If there are multiple names, use your discretion. Pick one, or note both. The lack of formalized geography has always bothered me, especially in a place as big as Dwilight. It'd be great to see some geography getting formed. Please, no REGIONAL geography. No one-region geographic features. Don't point out the "mountain range" with one region. A look at the map reveals 2, maybe 3, mountain ranges: around Balance's Retreat, Chrysantylys, possibly Via. Rivers I think need names, large plains areas... I'd like this page to be a fairly basic list with links to more in-depth explanations. Vellos 22:24, 17 February 2010 (UTC)

Do we want to use the in-game named weather areas as a basis for building this up? For instance, I know in Pian en Luries, the two weather types are East Pastureland and South Mediterranean. Would these fit in with that plan and idea? Silverfire 01:59, 18 February 2010 (UTC)

Yes, weather regions would also be good. However, they are a bit bland. They can be good starters, but should not be the end-all-beat-all as geography is only partially climatic. Vellos 03:03, 18 February 2010 (UTC)

This is indeed a great initiative especially for a continent like Dwilight. However, in my opinion, the rivers, mountains, lakes and possibly even seas ought to be given names by the game developers after which the river, mountains, lake and sea names would be displayed on the map, and this has been a feature requests I've been meaning to submit for a while now. It offers a lot of role playing potential and would be more widely spread and accepted by the community, as sadly, not all see wiki as a part of the game and thus don't care for it. --Gryphon 12:06, 18 February 2010 (UTC)

Map changes of that sort are, as far as I'm aware, rather difficult. However, whatever the case, it surely can't hurt to begin proposing names. If they don't get taken up, so be it: they'll change later. There will be multiple place-names: Japan vs. Nippon. We'll have competing geographies, which I find quite appealing. Vellos 21:37, 18 February 2010 (UTC)

This is a great idea, and I have been trying to do something like this for a while. Would the things decided here go onto the "Major Cultural and Geographical Features" list on the main page? D.west.ton 17:31, 20 February 2010 (UTC)

I am aware of your geographical work, and I am intentionally trying to use as much of it as I can. The way I see it, "Major Cultural..." would link directly to this page, and the other features, like "The Far West" or what have you, would be linked to from this page. Vellos 00:19, 21 February 2010 (UTC)

I have now incorporated much of the geography you developed. However, I left out the Unterlands, as it is a difficult case. It does not have enough feature unity to be properly classified as a region given that it has highly mixed plains and forests, yet it really isn't large enough to be what I would comfortably classify as a domain. I think what would be more appropriate would be separate namings of the forest around Unterstrom and the plains south and east of it. Vellos 00:41, 21 February 2010 (UTC)

Lastly... anybody know how to indent the various features like a bulleted list without losing the nicely organized header? Vellos 00:46, 21 February 2010 (UTC)

The Far West is a cultural landscape: Dwilight/The Far West/The Ancient History of the Echiur Dynasty. I wrote this up to tell about the realm that connected all of these regions together. Technically the furthest western point is only Tofino and Echiur, but I gave it so much more. As for the Unterlands, I gave it such limits because of how unconnected to anything else it was. Above it is the Mimer Peninsula, which was already marked off, beside that is the Dongeselands, which has its limits, below is the Divide Mountains and the Flow Peninsula, and a bit of the Sallowsitte Cape if you consider the furthest reach of that term. The Unterlands was what's left. It has a nice ring to it too, the lands below all the other lands. I don't think we should fix it entirely by present geographical features. For example, the forest which surrounds Twainville and Rettleville I had it in mind to cut in half for the symmetric land below Evenfell and that river to be separate. Nark and Rettlewood would be the border between these two different regions. Just as the Dalian Expanse and the Dongeselands are different though they are part of the same area. We can name the forest in the Unterlands too if you'd like.D.west.ton 06:44, 21 February 2010 (UTC)

I had a mind to keep the regions essentially geographic for the sake of longevity. We should not make arbitrary distinctions but only real ones. The issue with this is in real cultural distinctions: they form real boundaries, but they actually shift quite a bit. So I would prefer to keep regions (and, to another extent, domains) geographic to keep them reliably significant. Vellos 07:29, 21 February 2010 (UTC)

This is an ongoing project.... anybody who would like to contribute, please do! Vellos 19:46, 29 May 2010 (UTC)

Technical

For those wondering, I am classifying an "island" as being a landmass dominated by only one realm. Hence why "Madina" is an island, while "Forland" is classified as its own fully independent body: because it is possible for there to be a trans-national Forlandish culture and millieu, but not a Madinan or Libizeddan one. Those would inherently be subnational or regional identities, being transnational only insofar as they move outside of obvious geological boundaries. Vellos 22:05, 18 February 2010 (UTC)

Also, I've been considering the issue of sub-regions for some time. Example: "The Far West" has been pretty clearly delineated by D.west.ton at Dwilight/The Far West. However, this large region has issues: why is the Via range included in the Far West and not in whatever we call the plains above it that compose Caerwyn? What do we do of regions like the forest between Terran and Caerwyn, where part of it is in the Far West, but not all of it? I will be resolving this issue by limiting use of sub-regions. So, for example, I have broken up the regions, currently, by lines that purely reflect obvious map distinctions: rivers, coasts, forests, mountains. All of them are internally type-consistent. For larger regions (prime example being the Far West) that include multiple regions, we will not be listing them as above other regions, but rather as a separate category of "Domains". I would like a better term than "Domains," but that's what I have for now. A domain could be defined as a demarcation of land or area including all or part of multiple "map-based" regions, especially regions of different map-type. Domains will, as I said, be listed separately; like a type of region (waterways, forests, plains, other, domains....). I hope this helps clarify things. Vellos 00:19, 21 February 2010 (UTC)

What is Europe? Regions' natures and borders can vary greatly depending on who's making them. There can be a consensus, but there's always a bit of arbitrary, by the lack of the means of ultra-specific measures of the physical elements and the impossibility to quantify all the human aspects of it. -Chénier 02:02, 21 February 2010 (UTC)

We can give that forest a name then say part of it is in the Far West. Even small rivers can have split ownership between regions, or "domains" as I think I understand how you are using the term. they can also be used as borders too. Just like we can name different parts of the sea which are connected. For example, the sea between Raviel-Moon Bay-Panafu can have one name, and the sea right above it between Thar Gortauth-Nebel-Girich can have a different name. I've already been calling the water between Qubel Lighthouse and Sallowtown the Qubel Channel. Claims and history do have an affect on names. (which i guess brings another answer to the earlier Far West question). D.west.ton 06:44, 21 February 2010 (UTC)

Absolutely; regions can be double-listed, given competing names and geographies, or what have you. However, if there is a geographical area which we see as being actually highly diverse geographically, its primary significance being something else, I would prefer it being listed as a domain. Europe would be a domain, the Alps would not be, they would be a region. Again... if anyone else would like to contribute to this, or revise work I've done, they can feel free to do so. Vellos 20:32, 10 April 2010 (UTC)