Our discussion about styles, the Style Guide and other issues related not to what (content) but how (style).
This article needs to be cleaned up to conform to a higher standard of quality.
I have created a new template that could be used for nominating pages for deletion: Template:Delete. This could be easily added to any page that someone wants deleted. Probably a bit more intuitive than finding the Delete Requests page and having to add it to the list there. The template adds all pages on which it is placed to Category:Deletion, so all requested deletions can easily be found. Comments? --Indirik 14:58, 17 March 2009 (UTC)
Should we be doing more of this and less individual pages. Already I am having trouble finding and tracking things down. I think having more material in a single place with a larger TOC and then section linked outside of the the generalized section, is a better lay out for the manual. Everything is more generalized and then section linked instead of the massive amount of pages.
Even if no... section linking is a way around some of the early debates we had on people looking things up and sifting through TOCs. --Eric S P
Subjectivity in the manual
I look through and I want to rewrite everything. I look and see that realms without allies will not last long. Imagine my shock. I managed quite nicely and never lost a region with a lot of allies and half the world trying to get rid of me and my realm. It wasn't until Coimbra got a ton of allies that it ended quickly. Is it possible that we be objective in the manual and subjective in the community portal or is that just a pipe dream?
Honestly people get up in arms about style, subjectivity, flair, and (I will say it) a pissing contest in the community portal but than flash editorialize stuff all over the manual essential telling people exactly how to play the game instead of just reporting the facts. Realms, even the smallest and most strategically vulnerable do not *need* allies to do well and thrive. That has been shown time and again. Fontan had one ally when they thrived. Coimbra. Coimbra had 2 allies when they thrived. Fontan and Itorunt. It wasn't until each allied half the damn world that they started getting their asses kicked. And that is fact. 4 years of it.
There is too little objectivity or removing ones personal opinions/style from manual articles. If you want to sing the praises of alliances, tell people to pick one island or realm over another than the community portal is the place to write up editorials. Hell maybe Tom should add an editorial section. But it can't be in the manual, because as Joe Friday was so quick to quip "Just the facts Ma'am" are all that the manual should be. Leave the personal opinions on the side line. --Eric S P 6 August 2005 10:42 (CEST)
- You've given plenty of examples of what you don't like. Why don't you find an article you do like, and hold it up as an example? For that matter, there are about two dozen articles in the Special:Wantedpages section, and a lot of them I don't feel comfortable writing, for lack of experience. Why don't you write some of them, and demonstrate the style you'd like us to use? --Dolohov 6 August 2005 20:14 (CEST)
- I have been rewriting what I don't like but it feels like I am rewriting whole pages. And I have looked at pages (took done the top wanted when I killed off that ESP page ;) ) to do and and then looked at their root pages for style and context so I can match (and not be redundant) and that is where I am getting stuck. I want to go through and rewrite the root pages. --Eric S P 6 August 2005 20:28 (CEST)
- The root pages aren't set in stone by any means -- that's why they have discussion pages. If you think it's totally beyond redemption, then you can do what I did with the Basics page: create a "rival" page as part of your user page (for example: User:ESP/Manual) so that you can show us what you mean, and demonstrate it. (By the way, how did you change your signature? Or do you do it manually?) --Dolohov 6 August 2005 21:45 (CEST)
The Manual should contain facts and facts only. The Introduction does have to make shortcuts, in the name of brevitiy. It should not contain false information, but it can certainly be biased a little if doing so saves us lots of space.
So is it a fact that a realm without allies is a loser? No, it's not. When pointing newbies to a realm choice, however, it is a safe shortcut. Yes, they might miss out on a great realm to join, but they also miss out on joining a realm that will be gone two weeks later.
--Tom 7 August 2005 09:51 (CEST)
Writing in the second person (plural I assume)
We can't do that in a manual. Try to be person neutral or if that is not possible third person only and avoid possessives as much as possible. We have got to get this together. --Eric S P 6 August 2005 10:42 (CEST)