User talk:Gsklee/Protests on Abusive Events in Coimbraheim

Greetings,

Let me introduced myself a little bit first. I am quite a new player to this game, only joined here around 50 days or so. I have a character in Fontan on East Island. Before this single event of malign playing from some players in Coimbraheim which have caused great damage to the gaming world and upset many honest players, I always enjoyed playing BattleMaster and ranked it the best browser game I have participated on the internet. Today I bring this issue to you in a serious format, hoping this could be properly dealt with, so that many honest players out there could enjoy the game as usual and like the old times.

Many things have happened in Coimbraheim since its creation. Most of them were done with the built-in-game mechanism. These include:

1. Bergelmir the Fearless secede the city of Westmoor from realm Oligarch and thus Coimbraheim created under the built-in-game mechanism.

2. Troopleaders, including a) those old Coimbra characters friendly to the allies of Fontan, b) those new players who came to this game and decided to create their first characters in Coimbraheim, c) those troopleaders who are friendly to Oligarch and its allies, as far as I know only the character Paris, joined the realm Coimbraheim under the built-in-game mechanism.

3. Numerous assassin attempts on Bergelmir the Fearless and troopleaders friendly to the allies of Fontan, mainly want to incapacitate them, removing them from the council or preventing them from being elected under the built-in-game mechanism.

Of these three points I do not have any complaint or dissatisfaction; they are all done with the built-in-game mechanism, namely the options Tom has provided us to click and enjoy.

It is the following things listed below that I found hard to tolerate with: The suspicious inactive accounts created in Coimbraheim as soon as it was established.

http://www.battlemaster.org/UserDetails.php?ID=10251

http://www.battlemaster.org/UserDetails.php?ID=10252

http://www.battlemaster.org/UserDetails.php?ID=10254

http://www.battlemaster.org/UserDetails.php?ID=10300

There are many debates over what exactly do these accounts mean. Some said they are just normal new players trying out this game and never return; some said they are multi-accounts created by certain players to suck gold from Coimbraheim, blocking out the queue outside Coimbraheim’s gate waiting to join the realm, and maybe only created there to help character Paris to gain votes in elections. I believe this is yet another malign attempt from certain players, but there is nothing I could help you if you ask me to provide proofs regarding this; the most possible place we can find proofs to prove they are guilty or innocent, is the server of BattleMaster, in which IP addresses of all the players are recorded when they logged in. But again some cheaters are just smart enough to avoid these problems. Here are two message from my fellow troopleaders in Fontan, responding to my suggestion on investigating the IP addresses: Out-of-Character from Ghost (67 recipients) (15 hours, 38 minutes ago) Message sent to: Everyone in the realm Lillith, what you have to understand, is the black typicly uses real people for each account they wish to spam. Some delete their old accounts, and rejoin, etc... Other's are palyers with "saved" 3rd or 4th slot accounts specificly waiting to target a realm, or one's ready for quick emmigration from their present realm.

andrew von fange

Out-of-Character from Sparky (67 recipients) (12 hours, 51 minutes ago) Message sent to: Everyone in the realm Also it isn't always so easy to detect if 1 person is creating multiple accounts

Not every time they drop a little message saying: "Hello I am someone and I'm making a dummy account here to infiltrate Coimbraheim"

Also tracking someone's IP address may not always be as easy, I don't know to much about this, but if you have access to say 5 different proxy's you can create accounts with 5 different IP addresses...

Also dummy accounts could be created at other places, I have to login from 2 houses myself, because my parents are divorced so that means 2 different logged IP addresses from me, but that doesn't means I'm cheating

Also, friends could be asked to create accounts with their e-mail addresses, the account is created and never looked back at again, technically that wold be allowed, just it is (in my eyes) in conflict with the social contract, to just create an account to 'fill up space'

What I'm trying to say, Lilith, it's definatly not so easy to investigate this, but when speaking about OOC evidence I can say it's impossible for 'us' to deliver it to the GM's, unless we hack their computers, steal the log files and backtrack all the suspicious activities, all in all, a lot of work and I doubt it would be appriciated if you hacked the BM server :)

Thomas Muijsert So yes, maybe there is little we could find out by doing so, but I hope the GMs could still conduct some investigations on those four suspicious accounts listed above, or even all accounts that ever have a character in Coimbraheim, on their OOC background information and see if there is any sign of multi-cheating among any of them. Luckily enough, my character in Fontan is an active member in the Foreign Affairs Discussion Group, and our Chancellor posts all the important messages he received through the ruler channel there, so while I do not have some solid proofs like IP addresses to point out there are multi-accounts cheaters, I do have some soft proofs from players’ ingame messages. It all started with this OOC appeal from the player behind Bergelmir the Fearless: Message from zedd (23 recipients) (1 day, 14 hours ago) Message sent to: Lord of Blood, Sartan Morningstar, Gregor, The Revenger, Alexi, Lycastus, Lord Smoke, Mikhail, Quanto, Sparky, Sikander, Baldor, lolaap, Amanda, andro, Corin, Sualk, Thorn, Sulliven, Tempest, Lilith, Atos, azer Out-of-Character from Bergelmir the Fearless (13 recipients) (25 minutes ago) Message sent to: All rulers OOC:

Let's keep this game OOC friendly please. The incessant "fake" nobility being created in Coimbraheim is just ridiculously...well ridiculous.

I am and have been role-playing Bergelmir, and I intend to continue to do so. I expect nothing less from all of you. Surely you can wipe out Coimbraheim WITHOUT stooping so low.

I don't care who is doing it, and quite frankly - I don't want to know. As a new ruler amongst you, I came into this with a 'clean slate' attitude. It is becoming painfully obvious that a few individuals stoop to under-the-table operations in board games. And wish to play most unsportsman-like.

We are all supposed to be good friends OOC playing a 'board game'. I don't know about you, but I wouldn't invite someone to my house for an afternoon of RISK or Civilization if I knew they played like this.

End it now, and let's return to enjoying this incredible game using the tools provided by it's creator and developers.

Nuf' said.

David Wierbiki

zedd Chancellor of Fontan Later, he got a reply from the player behind Lysander. Please notice those words highlighted by me: Out-of-Character from zedd (23 recipients) (1 day, 11 hours ago) Message sent to: Lord of Blood, Sartan Morningstar, Gregor, The Revenger, Alexi, Lycastus, Lord Smoke, Mikhail, Quanto, Sparky, Sikander, Baldor, lolaap, Amanda, andro, Corin, Sualk, Thorn, Sulliven, Tempest, Lilith, Atos, azer Out-of-Character from Lysander (13 recipients) (just in) Message sent to: All rulers Dave,

I've been contacted by a number of characters (in-game) who told me they were joining your realm with the specific intention of bringing it down. I haven't ordered anyone to do so, but I haven't told them to stop, either.

My in-game position is that Lysander considers Bergelmir unworthy of honorable tactics, and will do anything to see Coimbraheim fall, even if he has to fund a counter-rebellion from his own pocket. Expect the worst from him.

Are you referring to new characters, or people from other realms joining Coimbraheim? If it's new characters, and there are an extreme number of suspect characters, I recommend you OOC ban them. It's a form of cheating, and if you think a player is making extra accounts just to cause problems for you, that player deserves to be banned (and should be able to furnish a suitable alibi if it's not the case).

This goes for all rulers, as well. I absolutely hated to see Battlemaster shut down for a week this summer over accusations of cheating, and it could all have been avoided if only the rulers involved had banned those suspected of cheating rather than making endless accusations and forcing everyone else to get involved.

If you suspect someone of being a cheater, OOC ban him or her. If the player is innocent, it's an inconvenience, nothing more. If the player is guilty, it saves everyone a hell of a lot of trouble.

Raphael Schmidt

Quataert Ben The blued lines will turn out to be a reference to the character Paris later, just for your information. And then reply from the player behind Bergelmir the Fearless: Message from zedd (23 recipients) (1 day, 11 hours ago) Message sent to: Lord of Blood, Sartan Morningstar, Gregor, The Revenger, Alexi, Lycastus, Lord Smoke, Mikhail, Quanto, Sparky, Sikander, Baldor, lolaap, Amanda, andro, Corin, Sualk, Thorn, Sulliven, Tempest, Lilith, Atos, azer Out-of-Character from Bergelmir the Fearless (13 recipients) (just in) Message sent to: All rulers Raphael,

Thanks! Yep, only referring to the 'fake' nobility being created every click which prohibits real people from entering. Be they good or bad for the Realm.

I am reluctant to do the OOC banning, only because of the fury it stirs up all over the place. But I believe I may not have any other choice. Over half of Coimbraheim's TLs are these new fake accounts with NO activity. And the line to enter is running around the entire east continent.

I am actually quite amazed that anyone would go to all the trouble to do this. Sure it effectively closes the realm's borders, but how can that be fun for the players and the game itself?

Crazy stuff going on!

Thanks again Raphael. See you on the field!

)

David Wierbiki zedd Chancellor of Fontan Then yet another reply: Out-of-Character from zedd (23 recipients) (1 day, 10 hours ago) Message sent to: Lord of Blood, Sartan Morningstar, Gregor, The Revenger, Alexi, Lycastus, Lord Smoke, Mikhail, Quanto, Sparky, Sikander, Baldor, lolaap, Amanda, andro, Corin, Sualk, Thorn, Sulliven, Tempest, Lilith, Atos, azer Poor Silas :p

Out-of-Character from Lysander (13 recipients) (just in) Message sent to: All rulers Dave,

OOC ban the lot of 'em if you have reasonable doubts about their legitimacy. I was reluctant the first times as well, but it's a necessary evil. As I said, if the player is truly innocent, it's a minor inconvenience. You may make some enemies, but if you allow this to happen, you'll have a lot more trouble than some annoyed players.

This is really one of those things where rulers need to work together and commit to action. If we don't show these cheaters that we're on to them, they won't stop. It's relatively easy to change IP addresses, get a new e-mail address and create a new character, but it quickly loses its appeal if all those new characters keep having to fight for their right to exist.

It's inevitable that we'll catch some innocent players. But we're not detectives, we're not GMs, and OOC banning is our only effective way of dealing with abuse.

Raphael Schmidt

Quataert Ben Under the suggestion of the player behind Lysander, Bergelmir the Fearless OOC banned three suspicious inactive troopleaders of Coimbraheim. And here is what he got: Out-of-Character from zedd (23 recipients) (20 hours, 14 minutes ago) Message sent to: Lord of Blood, Sartan Morningstar, Gregor, The Revenger, Alexi, Lycastus, Lord Smoke, Mikhail, Quanto, Sparky, Sikander, Baldor, lolaap, Amanda, andro, Corin, Sualk, Thorn, Sulliven, Tempest, Lilith, Atos, azer I liked this one.

Out-of-Character from Bergelmir the Fearless (2 recipients) (11 hours, 33 minutes ago) Message sent to: Doc, zedd I was stripped by the GMs for OOC banning the fake nobles. I won't make that mistake again.

We'll see if I am reelected or not.

David Wierbiki

Now should we answer Tom why we aint to eager to "OOC ban the lot of them"?

Quataert Ben The player behind Lysander never mentioned anything about his suggestion on OOC banning again. Because of Bergelmir the Fearless was kicked out of his seat, Paris was elected in and now the King of Coimbraheim. There are now vomits and protests all over the East Island: Message from zedd (23 recipients) (19 hours, 24 minutes ago) Message sent to: Lord of Blood, Sartan Morningstar, Gregor, The Revenger, Alexi, Lycastus, Lord Smoke, Mikhail, Quanto, Sparky, Sikander, Baldor, lolaap, Amanda, andro, Corin, Sualk, Thorn, Sulliven, Tempest, Lilith, Atos, azer Out-of-Character from Fuinur (13 recipients) (18 minutes ago) Message sent to: All rulers Paris (if that is your real name),

I will only say 2 things: Bergelmir protested about fake accounts and then a member of the Black Hand (and we all know how these guys worked when W.Sirion turned into Avamar) gets elected in the new realm. The story repeats itsself. Such conincidence can't be overseen.

Of course you can say I have no evidence and blablabla, but hey, this is my opinion.

I fell again ashamed to be a greek player in BM.

My OOC 2 cents to all this. My char Fuinur doesn't bother anymore about your little fake realm.eyestoKazakh

Alexandros Stavrou [reply to sender] | [add to ignore list] | [userdetails]

Out-of-Character from Naira (13 recipients) (just in) Message sent to: All rulers Alexandros Stavrou,

Have I missed something? The player of Paris did, according to what I know, not even play the game at the time the BH was active. Now you call him a member?

Please correct me if I am wrong, but the "huge influx code" was coded because Tom did not want the "bending of rules" that happend in W.Sirion to happen again. The character of Paris joined the realm alone, and in all chaos manage to get elected judge, and then ruler. How is that even simular? If I have the facts straight, I do not regard it as any fault being done.

The only fault that I have heard of is many "new" inactive nobles in Coimbraheim that is possibly created by someone who wish to stop the serious characters from entering. That, if its true, and not just ordinary inactive new players, is cheating indeed and should be investigated immediately.

Bjorn Falkenstrom

zedd Chancellor of Fontan And Paris started to ban troopleaders of Coimbraheim friendly to Fontan and its allies, namely those he does not like, with the reason “Time of change has come. You are not welcome to this Realm anymore.” Out-of-Character from Corin (66 recipients) (18 hours, 53 minutes ago) Message sent to: Everyone in the realm Surprise surprise, he has banned all the other TLs from the realm for the reason 'Time of change has come, you are not welcome anymore'. Brilliant. So we can be banned for that, but Bergelmir cant ban bogus TLs who appeared in the realm to stop others from joining it and did NOTHING. I should also point out that the warning about a ban with no introductions and/or action appeared in PARIS'S Judge Bulletin so he should have damn well gone as well as Bergelmir. The warning was there but because Bergelmir was HONEST about what was going on and did it OOC instead of IC the Black Hand have been able to do this.

This stinks, its blatant favouritism towards the Black Hand. If this isnt resolved with Paris being kicked out and the bans rescinded within 48 hours I am leaving this game for good. Anyone got Tom's email addy so I can tell him the same?

A pissed off, disgusted and very angry

Carl Williams These three troopleaders has been banned, including Bergelmir the Fearless, from Coimbraheim by Paris with such reason. http://www.battlemaster.org/UserDetails.php?ID=5433&HistoryLevel=3 http://www.battlemaster.org/UserDetails.php?ID=8046&HistoryLevel=3 http://www.battlemaster.org/UserDetails.php?ID=7950&HistoryLevel=3 Out-of-Character from Sparky (66 recipients) (18 hours, 44 minutes ago) Message sent to: Everyone in the realm Corin, or I must better say Carl, Don't take any rash actions.. it's great hacing you here and since the BH keeps muckering up the situations, a total OOC trickage, but don't lose your cool over these guys

You must keep fighting them and of course if Tom would be spammed with reports we would 'force' him to investigate further, it's not the first time a GM will have to take a look at BH businesses, but we shouldn't give it a rest just because they keep on fighting

IC: These men have been corrupted and doing totally wrong for following the wills of the god Udfudssgoisgasfaofgxdn... a god that stands for all the evil, war, pain, suffering, etc in the world They have sold their souls and won't see the light again so we better kill them off quickly and we should not lose our cool! Thomas Muijsert Out-of-Character from Mikhail (66 recipients) (18 hours, 44 minutes ago) Message sent to: Everyone in the realm no one is happy Corin, time after time these guys get away with this dirty behaviour. It's despicable and what annoys me is that Tom does nothing about it, he expects us to find the 'proof' (in other words messages that are going to be extremely hard to attain, the only way we'll get them is by luck). Any logical thinking person can smell a rat about this, it doesnt take a mad scientist to put all these events together that are related to avamar and the same bunch of greek players.

thanks,

Owen Hayes Out-of-Character from Corin (67 recipients) (17 hours ago) Message sent to: Everyone in the realm The proof is painfully obvious - no one would join a brand new realm like that unless they wanted to have a really intense bit of RPing - and these guys simply joined and went immediately inactive. See, the Paris thing in and of itself I dont have a problem with - if he'd come in and sabotaged by deliberate incompetence etc thats fine, we all might try tricks like that sometimes. But the situation as it now stands has ONLY arisen because Coimbra's ruler banned a bunch of obvious cheaters OOC instead of IC - in other words he was HONEST about the huge cracks that exist in the game on this continent. But Paris can issue a ridiculously thin excuse which says 'This is a coup, sod off' and thats absolutely peachy.

I would like to know how to follow this topic, where is the Forum/Mailing List please?

Carl Williams I will skip the rest and go directly to the formal response from the player behind Paris on the ruler channel: Message from zedd (23 recipients) (14 hours, 45 minutes ago) Message sent to: Lord of Blood, Sartan Morningstar, Gregor, The Revenger, Alexi, Lycastus, Lord Smoke, Mikhail, Quanto, Sparky, Sikander, Baldor, lolaap, Amanda, andro, Corin, Sualk, Thorn, Sulliven, Tempest, Lilith, Atos, azer For those not o nthe D-list.

Out-of-Character from Paris (13 recipients) (34 minutes ago) Message sent to: All rulers Sent on the discussion list,but not sure if it ever reaches it:

As far as I can see,you already know me,so no need for introduction. As it is all about me and I have nothing to fear,as I had no abuse,I am going to tell you what has happened in Coimbraheim,so that you know and you stop speaking about this.

Paris was next to Westmoor when he heard about a secceed.He thought that it was a plan of the NA in order to destroy Oligarch,so he felt that he should leave his beloved Realm,in order to save the whole SA and honour the Alliance.As he is a Hero he did not hesitate a moment,he took the initiative and all alone suddenly joined Coimbraheim having only one thing in his mind."I am in a secret mission-the destrustion of a future enemy Realm".

There were 2 ways to do that.Either to cause great havoc or to take the Rulership and turn Coimbraheim into an Allied Realm-or at least not an Enemy-.So,he had chosen the 2nd alternative.As soon as Paris joinned Coimbraheim,as it was still new,he set his votes on him in case that elections were to happen.And so happened.Elections occured and Paris got elected as a Judge because he was the ONLY one inside the Realm that had thought to do so from the first turn.However,he got seriously wounded by an Infiltrator and he was forced to step down.While he was "returning" he realised that he was elected again as a Judge,but he was unable to vote.He got 4 votes,which he interpreted that Bergelmir,as he was a Duke,had set his 2nd Vote on Paris.The 1st vote would probably have gone to another character who got wounded and therefore were wasted.

During his return Paris contacted some Rulers with whom he cooperated greatly,always IC.As soon as Bergelmir was stripped off his duties for OOC reasons,IC had somehow to be justified.Thus,I made a RP were it was clear that Paris was conspiring against his King and as a Judge made misuse of his Power in order to take advantage of the situation.The King was arrested and banned by the Judge because he was not wearing his Crown while he was taking a bath and therefore was not recognized as the King."You are not the King without the Crown!".

Meanwhile,Paris had taken some gold from a Prisoner in order to trap the General.He sent 25 gold to the General and claimed that as a General,he should lead the battle.And so,the General recruited some men and stood almost alone with about 20 men against 500 men,whera clearly happened what Paris was expected.He got wounded and therefore he could not be elected.

I had propagandised that the King should gain everyones 1st vote and so I had to act very fast and do every action as late in the turn as possible in order to avoid the possbility of the General (who I could not ban because he was a Council member) to change his votes and put himself on the 1st vote of the elections.If a tie was occured between Paris and the General,by everyone giving the 1st vote on himself,then the General would be elected as he had bothe more Prestige and Honour.

Paris acted.I sent the RP 3 min. before the turn change,Paris protested against the General in order to reduce his Prestige,he banned at the very late both Bergelmir,he banned another player that might support the General on the elections and that was looking suspicious on Paris and the turn change happened.The General was wounded and Paris got elected both Ruler and Judge.He needed desperately to be elected as Ruler,in order to strip the General and ban him,before he causes any trouble.And that was what he did.

It was a risk.If something did not go well,Paris would be banned and he would have no other opportunity in the future.If you see an abuse or any cheating express yourselves,otherwise stop this and even you do not like it,respect what has happened.As for the Infiltrators,they had orders to attack everyone else apart from Paris.

My apologies to the player that is handling Bergelmir for losing a Realm.I imagine how hard that must be.And by the way,as a player,I am proud to play along him.

Now,stop sending me IG that it was gay what I did and let us play to the game.

And the players that David(?) the handler of Bergelmir had OOC banned were just the usual inactives,not spies,not cheaters.

And my greek fellow from OR.Why don't you stop causing flames for the other greek players?I think that there is a possibility for you to accuse the other greeks in order to get clear from this.Just stop it!

And enough with the OOC accusations.Stop taking IC losses OOCly.

Let us play.

Paris Roukounas

zedd Chancellor of Fontan Message from zedd (23 recipients) (11 hours, 24 minutes ago) Message sent to: Lord of Blood, Sartan Morningstar, Gregor, The Revenger, Alexi, Lycastus, Lord Smoke, Mikhail, Quanto, Sparky, Sikander, Baldor, lolaap, Amanda, andro, Corin, Sualk, Thorn, Sulliven, Tempest, Lilith, Atos, azer Out-of-Character from Doc (13 recipients) (2 hours, 12 minutes ago) Message sent to: All rulers Actually, Paris, you shouldn't of been able to Ban Bergelemir. You aren't supposed to be allowed to ban "Royals" I think.

If you were able to ban him, that is a bug, and you should report it, and have it fixed, since it was you that discovered it.

Unless, of course, I am mistaken...

As for Berglemir getting removed from his Kingship in the first place for taking a veterna's advice..that too is simply sad. If Coimbraheim is reannexed to Oligarch, nothing has changed, but if it is not and Coimbraheim lives to see another day, something has changed.

Either way, I don't care about Coimbraheim. It is simply what has taken place around COimbraheim that has been quite dissapointing any way you want to look at it.

Stuart [reply to sender] | [add to ignore list] | [userdetails]

Out-of-Character from Fuinur (13 recipients) (2 hours, 8 minutes ago) Message sent to: All rulers Stu you are right. Very sad to see such things.

Royal Relative Nobles with direct ties to the royal family. This rank is limited to the current ruler and members of his family, as well as former rulers and their family members if they were within the realm at the time of his rulership. Nobles joining the realm later may claim royal blood, but their claims are usually disputed or weak and do not affect the effective rank. Royal relatives are always royal knights at least and are above the judge's ability to accuse or any new ruler's dispute option.They also can not be banned from the realm.

Alexandros Stavrou [reply to sender] | [add to ignore list] | [userdetails]

Out-of-Character from Paris (13 recipients) (2 hours, 8 minutes ago) Message sent to: All rulers Stuart,

Bergelmir was not a Royal and he is still not a Royal.

I have not cheated in any way.

Character Class Rank Location Hon. Pres. Status last seen in Realm Family Bergelmir the Fearless H Lord Poitiers 49 14 ok today 4 days view brulaaap S Noble Westmoor 46 17 wounded today 3 days view Bukama S Noble Dulbin 15 4 ok today 3 days view Paris H Royal Hagley 36 12 ok today 3 days view Talnost S Noble Hagley 12 1 ok today 0 days view The Mighty S Noble Bruck 8 1 ok 1 days 1 days view

Everyone,please,stop the accusations.Nothing considered as abuse or cheating has happened.

Paris Roukounas [reply to sender] | [add to ignore list] | [userdetails]

Out-of-Character from Fuinur (13 recipients) (2 hours, 6 minutes ago) Message sent to: All rulers Very well Paris, you just discovered another bug to report.

Alexandros Stavrou [reply to sender] | [add to ignore list] | [userdetails]

Out-of-Character from Paris (13 recipients) (2 hours ago) Message sent to: All rulers Well,guys,I do not see anywhere writing Royal so what am I accused for?

He was not Royal and I know other characters that where Rulers and are not Royals.

For example Lord One from People's Republic of Avamar.He had not hold the position enough to be considered a Royal.

If you have any problems with that,contact Tom.Stop intimmidating me in private because it is something that makes me really angry.

he had not been Royal and therefore I had not thought of a bug.He was Lord all the time.

Now,get lost!

Paris Roukounas [reply to sender] | [add to ignore list] | [userdetails]

Till now I have seen 3 bugs that helped paris to gain control. I wonder what else will be discovered.

zedd Chancellor of Fontan Out-of-Character from zedd (23 recipients) (11 hours, 22 minutes ago) Message sent to: Lord of Blood, Sartan Morningstar, Gregor, The Revenger, Alexi, Lycastus, Lord Smoke, Mikhail, Quanto, Sparky, Sikander, Baldor, lolaap, Amanda, andro, Corin, Sualk, Thorn, Sulliven, Tempest, Lilith, Atos, azer Out-of-Character from Doc (13 recipients) (1 hour, 57 minutes ago) Message sent to: All rulers Anywhere where a Ruler is NOT Royal, is a BUG, that needs to be reported, Paris. The sheer fact that you are defensive, means you KNOW that Rulers are SUPPOSED to be Royals.

Now if you do not report the bug reports, I will. You are abusing the rules of the game, and I do say rules...because Fuinur just showed what the Royal tag is, according to Tom.

I suggest you tell that person in Avamar to ALSO file a bug report. There is no "time frame" for a royal, to my knowledge, once you are a new ruler..you get the royal tag, or are supposed to, anyway. However, I am not entirely sure. What I do know, though, was that Berg was the first ruler of Coimbraheim...and should have had that tag on him, the fact that he did not was a bug, and the fact that he was banned is simply a byproduct of that first error in the code.

Now, the fact that Paris was allowed to ban 50% of Coimbraheim also seems strange to me. IF I were Judge, and I were to ban 50% of Sirion...I think that would be considered abuse as well. Not sure though, Tom will have to decide.

Now Paris, contact me in private, if you are not going to report the bugs that you have found, I will.

Stuart

Out-of-Character from Sorcha (13 recipients) (1 hour, 55 minutes ago) Message sent to: All rulers He should have listed as a royal...the heirarchy is still a bit buggy sometimes and for some reason there is sometimes a problem with that code in a ceded realm...I have seen it happen on FEI before...or at least seen a bit of discussion over it.

In any event you should report the fact that Berg was not listed royal which gave you the opportunity to ban him as a potential bug.

I am not saying you cheated with the ban...nor is anyone else...it is just a fact that the ruler of a realm is listed as a royal...if they are not it is a bug....unless there is some other relavant code issue here. If it is a bug and you don't report it you have exploited a buggy feature.

And please don't take my comments as any sort of accusation...they are my comments based on certain features of the game as I understand them...and our responsibility as players to seeing to it things are working properly.

(this little chunk is for Paris as a character...) If Paris is legitimate in his quest for a new life good for him...we can play with that...if Paris is simply seeking the destruction of Coimbraheim with the intention of handing the regions back to Oligarch so it can be reannexed...then shame on him...

So think about your motivations in all of this...You can RP anything even an OOC motivation and make it seem IC...so truly look at why you did what you did...and then decide how you wish to move forward....and there has been much discussion that the intention here was to destroy Coimbraheim and return the land to Oligarch...if this is inaccurate then again by all means play on...

Now lets all get back to the IC play of this game and see what we can do...to preserve the way of life we have all worked so hard to establish in each of our realms.

Kathleen Stalnaker [reply to sender] | [add to ignore list] | [userdetails]

Out-of-Character from Paris (13 recipients) (1 hour, 37 minutes ago) Message sent to: All rulers Ok,Stuart.If it is a bug,I do not know how to do it,so I would appreciate any help.I have heard though that you need to hold the position for at least one month.

By the way,could the fact that Bergelmir was stripped off duties have caused this?Should I talk to Tom before issuing a bug report?

And do not accuse me of cheating or abuse,because I have never done it in my life.How about doing it in BM?No way.

Paris Roukounas

Quataert Ben

Out-of-Character from Alexi (67 recipients) (13 hours, 30 minutes ago) Message sent to: Everyone in the realm This is disgusting. If Tom does not rectify this situation ASAP, I too will seriously concider quitting this game. I would really hate to do that cause I like this game, but when cheaters can run around and exploit the system without fear of reprisal, I have no interest in playing. Paris even admitted that he did things to lower people's prestige so they could not hold positions, which is to some small extent exploiting the system. The BH has had a serious impact/attack on at least 5 realms on this continent now (W Sirion, Fontan, Caligus, Ubent, and now Coimbraheim). This is rediculous.

Silas Ray Message from Lilith (67 recipients) Message sent to: Everyone in the realm Meanwhile I strongly urge to continue the OOC debate on mailing list. We can not let it go so easily every time we were played by these cheaters! I fear part of the reason they dare to do so time after time is that we always try to use IG means to deal with their OOC tricks. I am not here long enough to witness all the great deeds of Black Hand, but only this one single event has made me want to go out and kick some ass. How could you all tolerate this at all? We need to let those high-up moderators know we are really unhappy about this, and is considering leaving the game if this is not properly dealt with. We will see if Tom wants to keep some small amount of cheaters in game just because there is no solid proofs, in exchange of the quitting of a bunch of honest, dumb players who followed the rules. Lilith (Knight of Karbala) Out-of-Character from Alexi (23 recipients) (10 hours, 44 minutes ago) Message sent to: Lord of Blood, Sartan Morningstar, Gregor, The Revenger, Lycastus, Lord Smoke, zedd, Mikhail, Quanto, Sparky, Sikander, Baldor, lolaap, Amanda, andro, Corin, Sualk, Thorn, Sulliven, Tempest, Lilith, Atos, azer Disgusting. Obvious cheating, and we have to sit here and play nice with them or else we risk getting banned for breaking the social contract. I'm sorry, but Tom needs to grow some balls or something and take care of these OBVIOUS abusers. Silas Ray Out-of-Character from zedd (23 recipients) (8 hours, 55 minutes ago) Message sent to: Lord of Blood, Sartan Morningstar, Gregor, The Revenger, Alexi, Lycastus, Lord Smoke, Mikhail, Quanto, Sparky, Sikander, Baldor, lolaap, Amanda, andro, Corin, Sualk, Thorn, Sulliven, Tempest, Lilith, Atos, azer Indeed, Something like "bending the rules is cheating aswell. Goodbye assholes."

Quataert Ben Now… I believe your eyes are getting hurt, and so do mine. So I will sum it up:

The blued paragraphs indicate Paris and Lysander are in contact, IC it is as they both claimed. Nothing more, just for your information.

The reddened paragraphs indicate it was the player behind Lysander gave the suggestion of OOC bans first, then the player behind Bergelmir the Fearless listened to him and did it, and got stripped off his crown by some GMs. First, there is the possibility that the player behind Lysander were giving false suggestion to misguide the player behind Bergelmir the Fearless, put the player behind Bergelmir the Fearless into a dangerous position. May I ask who was the one calling up GMs to investigate Bergelmir the Fearless on his OOC bans which caused him stripped off eventually? It is indeed amazing that Bergelmir the Fearless was punished by GMs just few hours after he issued those OOC bans. I can hardly believe it if you are telling me no one has informed GMs about this at first place and some GMs just discovered this by themselves. Second, if the intension of the player behind Lysander is truly a good one, then I think the punishment on Bergelmir the Fearless was too heavy, because Bergelmir the Fearless did not intend to issue OOC bans at first, he appealed on the ruler channel first in hope to stop the creation of those suspicious accounts only, and only because of the suggestion of the player behind Lysander did the player behind Bergelmir the Fearless decided to issue OOC bans. He did not do this without discretion and has sought helps on the ruler channel. I am sure while the GMs know about the OOC banning, they do not know Bergelmir the Fearless has sought suggestions on the ruler channel first. Third, Paris has done the same thing like Bergelmir the Fearless had done, banning three troopleaders they do not trust out of Coimbraheim respectively, only they use different reasons. Bergelmir the Fearless was honest about was he thinks and issue OOC bans, then got stripped off by GMs and now a rogue, while Paris has made up some IG reasons for the bans he issued and nothing happened to him at all. Is this what the GMs and Tom would like to see? That the one knows the art of trick wins?

The greened paragraphs indicate the bugs Paris exploited to get himself elected. First, Bergelmir the Fearless should be a royal. He was the tyrannt of Oligarch before and King of Coimbraheim afterwards. He could not be banned by Judge, in this case, Paris. Second, Paris used some low tricks, protesting against his possible rival candidates near to turn change to lower their prestige, to ensure he got elected. This is by all means a surely malign attempt, bending the rules to certain degree to fulfill his own cause. They said there is a third bug Paris exploited but I cannot find it out; maybe you can.

So in short, there are two things I urge should be reverted by GMs: 1. The ban issued by Paris that kicked Bergelmir the Fearless out of Coimbraheim should be reverted. It was a direct cause of a bug. 2. The punishment issued by GMs that stripped away the rulership of Bergelmir the Fearless should be reverted. It was not his original idea. Or, the same punishment should be given to Paris by GMs, for the reason I have stated above. I hope my appeals here could reach the eyes of GMs and stop the unfair things now going around the East Island. I do not hope this game sink into the level of other third-grade web games all around. The promise is made here: http://battlemaster.org/overview-faq.html And I do not wish to see those words on game disputes turn out to be blank words. Thanks for your time reading this long letter.

Sincerely, G.S.K.Lee