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| − | ==Subpage Issues - Read Please== | + | == Everguard page == |
| − | I'm having my fill of explaining my use of subpages to every individual user who asks me about it - so I'm going to cover the issue here.
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| − | I am NOT ignoring the style guide, and if you'd like to know why and how, then I offer you the following. | + | When I last checked, the map on the right, for example, showed many more regions than you actually hold. --[[User:Tom|Tom]] 08:06, 28 March 2008 (CET) |
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| − | When I write articles, what I do is put the actual article itself in a page that is appropriately named (ie my characters names themselves, rather than the subpage of my family) so the title of the article doesn't look ridiculous (I mean Arylon Family/Fisc for an article name looks absurd - its much more easily read and cleaner looking if the title is the appropriate name).
| + | == Thanks for the stories == |
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| − | However, I am sensitive to the style guide, and the necessity to keep all articles streamlined for navigations sake, hyperlinking and what have you to specific subpages based on convention. As such, what I do is '''point a redirect''' on the subpage (ie on '''Arylon Family/Fisc''' - I have it redirect to '''Fisc Arylon''') - that way anyone who attempts to navigate to any of my pages based on conventions of the style guide, or from links on the game itself will be able to access the article without having to search for it or otherwise get confused... but at the same time I get clean looking articles.
| + | Thanks for adding the stories on the [[DD]] page, and adding the Everguard news template. I've been a bit too busy to actually create all the news stories that need to get written. --[[User:Indirik|Indirik]] 23:45, 28 March 2008 (CET) |
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| − | In other words, the subpages actively give you what would be there normally, but they redirect to proper article names. I'm more than a little OCD and seeing Arylon Family/Taran for a character's article name drives me absolutely batty - it would be like going to wikipedia and having an article named Bush Family/George W. It just looks stupid, looks messy and lame and I think makes the article look silly.
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| − | But as I said, I understand the reasons the style guide exists - and so I have come up with the redirect subpage technique to make sure the style guide is satisfied, while at the same time I can have article names that don't make me want to tear my hair out. There is nothing about the way I do it that causes problems with navigation or convention - in fact I don't see any issue with it at all. The style guide wants subpages to be navigatable - and they are - they just redirect to proper article titles.
| + | ==Anonymity== |
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| − | And I might add it also makes the wiki more searchable. Under the subpage organization, if I type in "Fisc Arylon" to the searchbox - I will get search results and have to comb through all the articles that mention my characters name (which is a lot) and find the actual article. If my characters actual article is located under its proper name, and I type in "Fisc Arylon" in the searchbar then I am brought RIGHT to the page I want and don't have to muddle around the search results.
| + | ''''' "Anonymous" -- The mysterious anonymous writer. No one knows who he (or she!) is. Their articles are found on the floor of the newspaper front office, having been slipped under the door during the night. Despite our best efforts, no one has yet been able to identify this mysterious writer. (When an article is written without specifying an author name, "anonymous" is automatically credited. When someone writes an anonymous article, PLEASE RESPECT THEIR DESIRE TO REMAIN ANONYMOUS IC. The person posting it may not have been the person to write it!) ''''' |
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| − | Now it should be noted I only use this style with things I know won't be duplicated (I don't make pages like "Sports" and tie them to specific families, realms, etc) - only do it when I know the article names won't be messing anything up (there will never be a Fisc Arylon article unless I write it for example).
| + | [[User:Ceorl|Ceorl]] 11:54, 8 May 2008 (CEST) |
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| − | So, to wrap up what I'm saying - I am not ignoring or flaunting the style guide, I'm working within it to make it better (for me). Thanks for your concern - but please understand that I know what I'm doing when I write wiki pages... I am not flaunting the style guide, I'm working within it to make my articles the best they can be. If you have any further questions or comments, I'm open to hearing them of course... but I hope this has explained exactly why I do it the way I do, and how it is not anti style guide.[[User:Arylon|Arylon]] 21:32, 7 March 2008 (CET)
| + | == Everguard == |
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| − | :The style guide was created for a reason. It is not a suggestion, it is a rule. If we have 500 people each creating pages using their own convention, then we end up with complete chaos. It breaks the conventions, it breaks the automatic functions provided by the wiki, and it makes it confusing for the rest of the wiki users who know how the wiki is ''supposed'' to work. Not only that, but the links provided by the game point to the specific pages as defined by the style guide. That's why they were put there, so that they point to the correct locations to put your material. If your major objection is that the page title says "Arylon Family/Fisc" (which seems to be nearly the entire substance of your problem with it), then use the [[Template:Title]] template to change it.
| + | Hmm that explaines it Matthew... All I wanted to say was that Jean II would be furious to see Ikkie ruling a realm which has Tor origins... :) --[[User:M2rt|M2rt]] 23:51, 9 May 2008 (CEST) |
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| − | :Putting the "Everguard History" in the location "Everguard History" is '''NOT''' putting in the "appropriately named" place. It is the '''wrong''' place. The Style Guide clearly states, in no uncertain terms, that it belongs as a subpage of the realm page: ''"Make sure to use subpages whenever possible. A page about the "Red bricks of Batesaor" should be called Batesaor/Red Bricks."'' This is not a personal preference item. It is a rule. It is possible to place it as a subpage, so do it. It also give specific, exact, locations for where your character pages should be placed. Again, these are not suggestions, but rules. And, I'm sorry, but "I don't liek the way the apge title looks" is '''not''' a valid reason for ignoring (Yes: Ignoring!) the Style Guide.
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| − | :As for moving my pages... If I had put one in the wrong place, then I would '''thank''' someone who moved it to the correct place, not chastise them.
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| − | :If you do things on the BattleMaster wiki, then you follow the BattleMaster wiki style guide. If you continue to flaunt the Style Guide (and yes, you ''are'' flaunting the style guide, since you have been repeatedly informed of it, yet still refuse to follow it, and tell people that you won't follow it) then people will continue to complain about how you are making your pages. --[[User:Indirik|Indirik]] 21:56, 7 March 2008 (CET)
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| − | ::The problem is that you are making pages in the wrong places, as you well know. What if everyone decided that they were going to create their pages wherever they felt like putting them, under their own personal filing system. Then they went around and created redirection pages wherever they felt that people might look for their pages. This increases server storage space, server processing time, cranks the page count way up, and creates a multitude of nearly empty pages that contain nothing more than what amounts to a vanity redirect. ''(And before you go off one some rant about disc space being cheap, or unlimited, or whatever, Tom has mentioned several times that certain other unnecessary pages have done exactly those kinds of things.)'' And your rationalization for all this is what? Because you think the title looks messy?! I have one word for that: '''Deal!''' Subpaging keeps the pages organized in a completely rational and predictable fashion that anyone with a slight modicum of wiki experience knows how to interpret. There is no place in the game where any user can *ever* link to a specific character page of yours in an automatic fashion. Only you have those automated links. Other people can only link to your family name. From there they follow links to your individual characters. So your redirect from <nowiki>[[Arylon Family/Fisc]]</nowiki> to <nowiki>[[Arylon Fisc]]</nowiki> does absolutely no good whatsoever. And what will you do when you manage to make your Everguard realm? When you create the wiki page for your capital city will you put it in <nowiki>[[Dwilight/Valyrja]]</nowiki> like the Style Guide says? Or will you make that page a redirect to <nowiki>[[Valkyrja]]</nowiki>, because you think that page title looks better, too?
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| − | ::This is the classic Tragedy of the Commons. You are, effectively, pissing in the community well because you think it makes a better toilet than the one in the bathroom, and telling everyone that it doesn't matter, because you've relabeled the well as a lemonade fountain. A wiki is a community effort. A Commons only works so long as '''everyone''' follows the rules. This isn't for my good, or for your good. It's for the good of the entire community. You can't allow an exception for a such a trivial reason as "I think it makes the page title look better." Did you ever think that perhaps the hierarchical page title gives the page the essential context for the logical structures of that information? For example, take the page [[Tor]]. Is that a new realm? What island is it on? Is it an official page? Is it a character? By placing that page in its proper place under [[Torenism/Tor]] someone can instantly look at the page title and know that it is a page related to the religion of Torenism. They don't have to plow through pages of prosaic writing to try and interpret what it is supposed to be.
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| − | ::And that holds just as true for character pages. When someone sees a page named Fisc Arylon, what are they supposed to think? By BattleMaster wiki convention they might think it's a new realm. Or perhaps it's a guild, or an important NPC (like, for example, Ucdauh), or even some other game related item. But if I see Arylon Family/Fisc, I know '''exactly''' what it is and to what it relates. I don't have to read and interpret the content. And believe it or not, a lot of people are going to find your pages by reading the list of recent changes. And I would bet that a hell of a lot of people have never heard of the Arylon family, and Fisc Arylon won't ring any bells at all. (And no, I sure as hell wouldn't expect most of them to know what Brance Indirik is either. But since I put my pages where they're '''supposed''' to be, they know that <nowiki>[[Indirik Family/Brance]]</nowiki> is someone's character and they don't have to bother checking it out if they don't know or care who Brance Indirik is.)
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| − | ::If I see pages where they don't belong I move them. Just like when I walk into the doctor's office and see a magazine on the floor in the waiting room: I don't ask the receptionist if the magazine is supposed to be on the floor, I pick it up and put it in the magazine rack. I don't do it because I'm an obsessive neat freak, or I have need to feel self-important by taking care of other people. I do it because it's the polite thing to do, and because I respect the Commons.
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| − | ::So, please respect the Commons. Follow the rules. And stop pissing in the well, because I'm not buying the lemonade story. --[[User:Indirik|Indirik]] 03:12, 8 March 2008 (CET) | |
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| − | :::You are the only one who has the automated links to your own character pages. No one else has those links. Don't believe me? Then try to find a direct link to '''someone else's''' character page from within the game. If you can find it, please let me know. Stop working so hard at trying to get around the system and just work inside the system. Is my approach a little hardass and melodramatic? Not at first. But nothing else seems to work with you. I moved your pages for you, and explained why. I offered to help you do it and explain why it should be done that way. I pointed out in the style guide exactly where it specifically says to '''not''' do what you're doing. Regardless of how hard you protest that they are, your articles are not appropriately named because they are not named according to the rules. Creating a page somewhere else that redirects to your inappropriately named page doesn't fix the incorrect name. It just clutters up the place with unnecessary redirects. You do NOT have functional subpages for your family page or the Everguard pages. (Well, you do now, because I moved them there.) You had redirects to non-subpages, and a lot of main articles that were not where they are supposed to be. Then you spend a hell of a lot of time trying to recreate your own navigation system to replace the wiki's own built-in navigation system that you deliberately break with your incorrect page locations. When I see articles that are misplaced, I move them to where they are supposed to be, tell the original author that I did it, and offer to explain why. Believe it or not, your pages were NOT the first ones that I have moved in such a way. You're just the first person that ever tried to make an issue out of it. (And a couple other people thanked me for moving your pages.) Everyone else who's pages I have moved has thanked me, and then gone on to do it the correct way. So while it is not the end of the world if a few articles are misplaced (as you have admitted yours are), but it's also not the end of the world if someone moves them to the correct place, nor if your pages titles don't look exactly the way you think they should. --[[User:Indirik|Indirik]] 06:12, 9 March 2008 (CET)
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Everguard page
When I last checked, the map on the right, for example, showed many more regions than you actually hold. --Tom 08:06, 28 March 2008 (CET)
Thanks for the stories
Thanks for adding the stories on the DD page, and adding the Everguard news template. I've been a bit too busy to actually create all the news stories that need to get written. --Indirik 23:45, 28 March 2008 (CET)
Anonymity
"Anonymous" -- The mysterious anonymous writer. No one knows who he (or she!) is. Their articles are found on the floor of the newspaper front office, having been slipped under the door during the night. Despite our best efforts, no one has yet been able to identify this mysterious writer. (When an article is written without specifying an author name, "anonymous" is automatically credited. When someone writes an anonymous article, PLEASE RESPECT THEIR DESIRE TO REMAIN ANONYMOUS IC. The person posting it may not have been the person to write it!)
Ceorl 11:54, 8 May 2008 (CEST)
Everguard
Hmm that explaines it Matthew... All I wanted to say was that Jean II would be furious to see Ikkie ruling a realm which has Tor origins... :) --M2rt 23:51, 9 May 2008 (CEST)
