User:Chénier/Dwilight Project

Notice: This is currently a draft of multiple messages, in their more or less original form. Many of them contradict eachother, they are here to be later compiled into a more coherent form.

The Project

Preamble

New continent, new opportunities. What we are putting forward is a plan for a realm unlike any other. We want to take into consideration the critics of how some things are misused, and make them right. We want to use a new approach to realm-building. Quite simply, we are attempting to create the "perfect realm(s)" (details further).

For this, we have centered our attention on three aspects of the game, originality, depth, and fun to make playing in our realms as rewarding an experiance as possible. The cultural model we have used, one that seemed to fit our objectives better and better as we progressed, is the mesoamerican model (Aztecs mainly, Mayas, Incas, and others as well).

Having layed out the general outlines of the plan, we shall further elaborate on the core concepts before moving on to the main body.

Core concepts = Originality, Depth, Fun:

Originality because, well, it's rewarding, and it adds spice to the whole continent when something is different. Depth so that those who are active and/or gain power can really immerse themselves in it. Fun so that the average player will enjoy himself and never get bored. The tree together also bring stability, which should bring a long life to the realms, and therefore prolonge the positive experience for everyone (not as fun for most players when they have to begin from scratch because their realm was reduced to nothing).

Source

Part 1

Well we talked about the plans like crazy on IRC tonight, an old concept of mine (http://wiki.battlemaster.org/index.php/User:Ch %C3%A9nier/Draft1), revived taking all the new info we have into account, and modified accordingly.

Key points:

1) Matriarchy: Feudalism is way more than christian europe. So let's break away from the mold a little, why not a culture which values women over men? This would, of course, be deeply tied to the following point:

2) Religion: A religion inspired off the various mesoamerican traditions (Aztec/Inca/Maya/Toltec/etc.), which rules and unites the nobles of a certain region, which may span over multiple realms (that would be the goal, to have many realms share it). Though they don't require theocracies, religion is omnipresent, and guides politics and common-day life (http://wiki.battlemaster.org/index.php/ The_Blood_Cult). Human sacrifices are practiced to please the gods, and so we come to the next point:

3) Flower Wars: Gang-bangs and wars of annihilation are as boring as eternal peace, and so this is the most logical, not to mention fun, alternative. Realms agree to declare war on eachother for a set ammount of time, and establish rules. For example, only a few regions are allowed to be attacked, and no TOs will be run. What is the inscentive? For rulers, it's obvious, it's political stability. If the nobles are off warring and having glory, then they are pleased and aren't thinking of change. For the nobles, constant h/p gains, and the ability to loot as they want the selected regions. These war-games are a kind of competition, whith deep religious significance, that also allows the warriors to capture their sacrifices-to-be.

Now, the current idea is to have people start (LJ will resume preaching The Blood Cult on Beluaterra, and will do the same on Dwilight) in Springdale. Once enough strength is gathered, the forces travel to do a CTO of Libidizedd. There, the religion is founded, the hiearchy and politics established... overall, the whole structure of the realms to be are determined. This small island will be The Blood Cult's Vatican, it will be the heart of the civilization. Once it is strong enough, it expands to form colonies around it that will share it's faith. The goal is to have as many colonies as possible (really doesn't matter if they are tiny) so that, in peace time, they may have flower wars with eachother so as to better themselves, and entertain the warriors while no threat is present. If an outside force threatens one of the civilization's realms, they band together to protect eachother, and so the many small realms can resist bigger ones, and are not threatened with destruction themselves.

We discussed much more, from culture to strategies, but those were the main lines. This is basicly shameless advertisement for those who want to create something truly different, that should be fun for everyone (that's perhaps the main goal I had in mind when designing it all). So, if you have ideas, or want to join in, just say so! :P

Part 2

4) Polyandry: With the number of male nobles far greater than that of female nobles, it's only normal for a society to adjust it's culture to reflect the social imbalance. As such, it would not be uncommon for women to marry more than one man. Their rarity only gives the women more leverage in the scheme of things.

5) Polytheism: The whole civilization (the craddle realm and the colonies) worships more than one diety, even though some of them remain rather universal. This has the effect of creating regional dieties, where some of the realms focus on new patron spirits. These would obviously lead to cultural variety, with new myths and values being held across the empire. Besides, pretty much anything passes if it is done "to please the gods".

6) Human Sacrifices: Yes, of course. This is a tool to stimulate RP, not to mention make politics with foreign realms rather interesting. Hangings and lootings can be seen as tools to collect the victims. Foreign adventurers are free game. A noble that offers his body to the gods is the greatest gift that can be done to the gods, as long it the proper ceremony accompanies it, most likely a religious recreation of the myth of creation or something of the like.

7) Core concepts = Originality, Depth, Fun: Originality because, well, it's rewarding, and it adds spice to the whole continent when something is different. Depth so that those who are active and/or gain power can really immerse themselves in it. Fun so that the average player will enjoy himself and never get bored. The tree together also bring stability, which should bring a long life to the realms, and therefore prolonge the positive experience for everyone (not as fun for most players when they have to begin from scratch because their realm was reduced to nothing).

Part 3

8) On the gender of the dieties: There are currently 4 gods for the 3 goddesses. At first, they may seem odd in a matriarchal society, however on closer examination it just reflects the temporal world: While there are more males than females, it is the females who truly hold the power and most important positions.

Part 4

9) Sexual division of work: It's a matriarchy, so obviously, the administration of the people would tend more of the side of women. Rulers and judges would therefore tend to be ladies, and since they are the symbol of fertility, they would take care of any food- producing regions. On the other hand, males would tend to manage the ressources and wage warfare, as such their would usually occupy the banker and general role, as well as most marshals. They would also maintain the productive regions, such as cities, mountains, and some forts. While males may hold more *power*, females are more important anyways, due to their religious importance.

Part 5

10) Decentralisation: Okay, Plato's still fresh in my mind, but hey, we are trying to make a "perfect" realm here, no? So it's back to the idea of city-states. The more realms, the more council positions there are to hand out. The smaller the realms, the more social mobility usually. And for practicality, the more smaller realms you have (instead of one large one), the more flower war opportunities! Like the greeks, all the small realms would unite under a common threat, but would otherwise be free to follow many varying ways of life under the same pantheon, though with their own protector diety.

Part 6

On Nov 1, 2007 9:31 PM, Dominic <dham0...@gmail.com> wrote:

> 8) On the gender of the dieties: There are currently 4 gods for the 3 > goddesses. At first, they may seem odd in a matriarchal society, > however on closer examination it just reflects the temporal world: > While there are more males than females, it is the females who truly > hold the power and most important positions.

Well, you may not need to create gods and godesses for different things. The aztec dieties came in pairs, with its male and female sides. (I still don't quite grasp if each of the gendered sides were meant as different entities, or if it was one same god.)

Part 7

Out-of-Character from Lyse (4 hours, 35 minutes ago) Message sent to everyone in your realm (132 recipients) That's why we word with the inalienable rights, not against them. The rights, after all, just like the realm, have for purpouse to promote fun.

The doubts I have are on point 9. That requires characters to follow social norms, of a realm unlike any others, instead of going with the old prejudices of time in realm/honour-prestige/whatnot. It also leaves room for misinterpretation, and some unpleasent debate.

However, it's purpouse it to establish a clearer line of aspirations. When you have less options, you are more likely to know what you want, and when there are less people who can get it, you are most likely to get it quicker. At the very least, it's more fun to know that there's only one person in your way before getting a title than knowing there are 10 who've been in the realm a day longer. The goal is to encourage social mobility through specializations (Plato's concept of the classes, with the sex being a determining factor at birth).

Pitch in your opinions, I'm not saying what I done is perfect, this is an attempt to improve it.

Dominic

Part 8

The problem with point 9 is supporting the matriarchy, to somehow favour female characters, through concrete in-game methods (so that this social reality doesn't get ignored and fade away). However, social norms that can be broken on a whim by a few and make the social hiearchy crumble.

Therefore, if any titles should be reserved for a gender, it should be some that are appointed. However, the system must be versatile, to suit many people's desires. Though the capital realm might be a theocracy, the others must be able to evolve as they see fit, into whatever government they desire. After all, some people preffer monarchies, other republics, etc. The problem with this is that where some places certain positions are appointed, elsewhere they are elected. Therefore, the only things that are universally appointed are knights, marshals, religious rank. Regions are elected at some places, and council positions vary as well.

However, there's an idea that just came to my mind. While it's hard to control those game-created entities, all those message group-based institutions are quite easy to control. As such, we could hold a group of advisors that would be dominated by a sex, while any character has a chance to power.

Also, in the name of diversity as well, a colony being patriarchal would only add to the variety.

Part 9

11) The Empire: Very decentralised, yet united. The goal, as mentionned before, is to have as many small realms as possible, each going on their own path while remaining true to the religion (which is polytheist and very open anyways). The relation between the colonies and the island realm is truly like the relation between the Vatican and catholic europe during the era of the crusades. While it's imposing on social norms, and manages to unite them on great ocasions somewhat, the politics during normal time remain within the hands of the rulers.

The realms are small and many, and that's intentionnal. Once created, they are imposed a general fundation to build upon, but for most aspects the colonists are free to expand and adapt the realm as they see fit, and to even "discover" their own patron diety. There should (see must) even have a patriarchal colony, so that the males of the empire can gravitates towards there if they become power-hungry or disruptive. That way, the empire can house a wide diversity, and the empire's subjects can all be satisfied.

However, to keep them united, and break the isolation small realms bring, they must be given plenty of opportunities to interact. Sure, discussing with your neighbour during wargames is a good thing, but it's not enough. As such, events must be held to bring them together. The first are pilgrimages. Four major religious festivities per year, at the four soltices (RL, to keep it simple). Perfect opportunity for massive RPs, bring everyone at one place, organise deals, take care of political ennemies, promoting the faith in RP and not just some random number on region statistics, etc. The second are tournaments, prefferably monthly, which would be held in the core realm. Every month, everyone would be able to amass in a single spot, quickly and safely, to boast about their skills, forge new relations, and run a chance at the prize. Once per month also means that anyone that goes to them all, and says one message per tournament, can be reached by anyone else who attended them, so it makes nobles of the empire much easier to contact than would otherwise be normally possible. This tournament would be based on swordfighting (to motivate the nobles to improve the skill, for the better of the realms), and would be RPed with deep religious signification. They should even be RPed as mesoamerical ballgames, which relies on the same abilities and strenghts as swordfighting could. Sacrifices could also be held. However, this is also an opportunity to open the bloc on the outside world, to which it would most likely tend to be closed. It would give an opportunity for the empire's culture to shine infront of the foreigners, who, stunned, gaze upon the grand temples. This would be alot like the olympics during the cold war. Regular tournaments could also have the effect of granting the empire a monopoly over them, as other realms attempting to hold such tournaments would end up having no troop leaders left with the time and gold to afford it, which means that the core realm can almost make a buisness out of it, to finance greater temples in distant places rapidly and whatnot.. In addition to that, it also allows the conversion of foreigners, as the religion could also spread into foreign realms, obviously.

Part 10

+11) For communication, I was also reminded later of the religion channel. With all of the realms sharing the same religion, it can be used to bring them all together, out of their isolation, into a truly united community.

Part 11

Reilwin View profile More options Nov 8, 1:07 am From: Reilwin <rubydragon...@gmail.com> Date: Thu, 08 Nov 2007 06:07:23 -0000 Local: Thurs, Nov 8 2007 1:07 am Subject: Re: Mesoamerican Matriarchy on Dwilight Reply | Reply to author | Forward | Print | Individual message | Show original | Report this message | Find messages by this author Just to note, that there was further discussion on the name of the religion

It's currently gravitating between

1) Ezotl Teocalli (Human Blood Temple, or Temple of Human Blood)

2) Blood Teocalli (most preferred)

and simply

3) Teocalli (Temple)

I can't remember exactly which of the mesoamerican languages this was taken from, but I believe it's from Aztec.

Part 12

V2Blast View profile More options Nov 8, 6:18 am From: V2Blast <v2bl...@gmail.com> Date: Thu, 08 Nov 2007 11:18:51 -0000 Local: Thurs, Nov 8 2007 6:18 am Subject: Re: Mesoamerican Matriarchy on Dwilight Reply | Reply to author | Forward | Print | Individual message | Show original | Report this message | Find messages by this author I'd have to say I prefer the first one, Ezotl Teocalli. I don't like mixing English and Aztec; it just doesn't flow well. And Teocalli's just a bit lacking. :P

Part 13

Gloria Santos View profile More options Nov 19, 12:47 pm From: "Gloria Santos" <gloria.san...@gmail.com> Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2007 11:47:51 -0600 Local: Mon, Nov 19 2007 12:47 pm Subject: Re: [bm-chat] Re: Mesoamerican Matriarchy on Dwilight Reply | Reply to author | Forward | Print | Individual message | Show original | Report this message | Find messages by this author

On Nov 8, 2007 10:34 AM, Dominic <dham0...@gmail.com> wrote:

> I'll admit it has merit... We'll have to think more about it... I'll > consult with a few people who know nothing about the aztecs and see > what the name inspires in them.

Well, I do know a bit about the aztecs, and Ezotl Teocalli just does not sound as shocking as it should.

Part 14

Gloria Santos View profile More options Nov 20, 9:53 am From: "Gloria Santos" <gloria.san...@gmail.com> Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2007 08:53:22 -0600 Local: Tues, Nov 20 2007 9:53 am Subject: Re: [bm-chat] Re: Mesoamerican Matriarchy on Dwilight Reply | Reply to author | Forward | Print | Individual message | Show original | Report this message | Find messages by this author

On Nov 19, 2007 8:37 PM, Dominic <dham0...@gmail.com> wrote:

- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text -

> On Nov 19, 12:47 pm, "Gloria Santos" <gloria.san...@gmail.com> wrote: > > On Nov 8, 2007 10:34 AM, Dominic <dham0...@gmail.com> wrote:

> > > I'll admit it has merit... We'll have to think more about it... I'll > > > consult with a few people who know nothing about the aztecs and see > > > what the name inspires in them.

> > Well, I do know a bit about the aztecs, and Ezotl Teocalli just does not > > sound as shocking as it should.

> You know I highly value your opinion. Got any suggestions? For the > religion itself, as well as the civilization/empire, and the realms > (could use a prefix/suffix system)? > --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~

Well, I don't know what kind of effect you want. After all, what we now consider "supernatural" was, for the ancient mexicans, a natural part of their life. So, Ezotl Teocalli does not have the same effect as Blood Cult, but perhaps that's closer to what you want.

Part 15

Reilwin View profile More options Nov 19, 12:24 am From: Reilwin <rubydragon...@gmail.com> Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2007 21:24:03 -0800 (PST) Local: Mon, Nov 19 2007 12:24 am Subject: Re: Mesoamerican Matriarchy on Dwilight Reply | Reply to author | Forward | Print | Individual message | Show original | Report this message | Find messages by this author I think we should put some thought into how coalition defense would work. Communications would be made easier via religion channels, but a clear line of military command would need to be implemented--otherwise there could be unnecessary friction. Not to mention that the more people are involved, the greater the chances there'll be a one who'll make a stupid mistake.

Part 16

Well, we aren't claiming to be "mainstream", so sounding exotic is a plus. Relating to blood, to give a clear idea of what the founding principles are (the goal being to avoid "humanist" reforms, got quite a prejudice against those)...

So... Exotic, clear, imposing, mysterious, organised, and civilized are all aspects the name could summon, though I doubt any name could contain all those elements at once.