Heen (Realm)/Heenite Highlights/October '07/Negotiations of the Nations
Contents
Negotiations of the Nations
After almost a week to mull over some of the thoughts and feelings that had been raised by the rulers of Heen and Mesh, both realms needed to come up with some terms of agreement that would need to be settled in order to establish peace. These terms will be updated as the discussions progress, and will follow a similar format to the "Mediations with Mesh" insert to the paper.
The Terms of Heen
|
The Terms of Heen | ||
| 20 October 1007 | Thrydwulf | |
| Chancellor Leani,
Many things have happened between Heen and Mesh during the past few months, worsening the relations between our two realms that were at a stable and conscious peace for a very long time. Somewhat near a month ago, Heen formally declared to all rulers to engage in war with Mesh to bring an end to what Heen considered a hostile and ‘disgusting’ situation. Now, mediations have started to establish a new peace between Heen and Mesh. However, we all know that it takes more than a fresh signature to mend the broken relationship. Let it therefore be clear that Heen still intends to settle the situation by war if no compromise can be found between our realms. In order to find a peaceful solution, Terms for Peace will have to be agreed upon, as if our realms are trying to end a war even though it has not started yet. It is only logical that Terms are expected to come from both sides, and Heen welcomes Mesh to share their. Our Terms for Peace:
Furthermore, this pact extends to the specific situation where no wars of mutual interest are fought. In this case, relations are improved to peace, yet the borders remain uncrossed. To repeat and clarify, Heen may not enter Meshian lands, Mesh may not enter Heenite lands.
Any infractions of this pact will be dealt with as following: If the soldiers under command of the involved noble(s) count less than 1/10 of his/her/their realm’s total military strength, then the noble(s) will be fined 75 gold each. If more, then their realm is held responsible and unless bans are immediately issued, the pact as well as the peace is considered broken.
As you can see, there are plentiful of terms that are merely a moral issue. We do not ask anything territorial nor anything military to settle this cold conflict. We only want Mesh to redeem itself and correct its errors to Heen. These Terms are of course negotiable to a certain extent, relative to the severity of the issue and many other factors that might arise during the negotiation. Heen awaits Mesh’s Terms for Peace, to be able to start the negotiation of the Terms. Signed, Martana Curs, Queen of Heen | ||
Leani's Response
|
Leani's Response | ||
| 20 October 1007 | Thrydwulf | |
| Queen Martana and the Council of Heen,
The following letter contains Mesh's negotiation terms in response to Heen's Peace Proposal. Point 1: Sir Kagurati and Sir Tarajist are now Nobles of Mesh and they are free. Mesh is a Democracy where every Noble possesses nearly as much power as any of the Council members. Our realm works differently than yours, please acknowledge this. The two individuals are now under Meshian law and if we were to ban them for their past we would be undermining our own society, our own beliefs. We understand Heen's position but what you proposed goes against everything our realm stands for: Freedom. These individuals will not be banned from Mesh for their history, they simply can't be according to our laws, culture, beliefs, values. Point 2: The Ambush in Naraka was already explained to you Queen Martana during our discussion session. I was the Commander of the Army at that time so I can assure you that there was no such thing as trying to backstab Heen. We were intercepting a Heenite convoy en-route to Reeds to reinforce the City, we wanted to stop you from reaching the City so that the City can be successfully sieged. Naraka at that time was a region of Vlaanderen so there was no treaty broken, we fought on Vlaanderenian soil just like Mesh and Heen agreed to. There will be no investigation, it is not needed, if you can not accept my word as a proof then how could we possibly establish good mutual relationship? Point 3: Mesh is a democracy and thus we allow Freedom of Speech. This includes free expression of one's feelings about any realm in particular. If a Noble of Mesh decided to talk about Heen, whether in a bad tone or a casual one, our laws allow that. While you may consider such thing as Anti-Heen according to Heenite laws you must remember that Mesh is a different governmental system, here that is allowed. Nevertheless, like I mentioned during our meditations, there is no such thing as Anti-Heen fction within Mesh. It is possible that they exist behind the scenes but publicly no one trashed Heen in such an extent that it would be considered Anti-Heenish. Of course there were people who expressed negative feelings about Heen, especially those who arrived from Heen, but once again that is allowed according to our Democratic laws. I am certainly sure that there are people who are not very fond of Mesh either within Heen, we could call them Anti-Mesh faction. But Mesh doesn't mind that, that is natural, not everybody loves their neighbors. Point 4: Mesh is willing to make such promise. Mesh is willing report anyone from Heen that is telling Mesh information that can be considered important (we will not take interest in some random Heen noble sending random messages without meaning). In return Mesh requires Heen to do the same. Whenever a member of Heen in contacted by someone in Mesh, who is leaking information, no matter what his motives are, that that noble is reported to Mesh’s government. It is no courtesy to hide a spy when peace has been established again. Point 5: We have no list with names of people who leaked information. You mentioned that Sir Danny might have such information but he is denying those accusations. Nevertheless Mesh makes a promise that if in the future we find out who was the one sending us information and can confirm that 100% sure then we will immediately notify the government of Heen. Point 6: Mesh's government will formally send an apology for the slander that have taken place against members of Heen. Slander and bad-mouthing are not Meshian values either. Point 7/8: Mesh agrees to the renewal of the Non-Transgression pact established between the two realms earlier. However Mesh wishes to add an addendum: the Treaty may be suspended temporarily for Heen and Mesh forces to work together against a common enemy, this means fighting together against Daimons for example. Mesh does not agree to Heen's addendum. Banning a person for accidentally venturing in Heen territory with absolutely no hostile intention is absolutely ridiculous and can anger even the Titans. New Knights would be endangered by such addendum and thus we can not agree to this. Warnings to return home and fines however will be communicated to the person in question. Mesh also requires Heen to adopt the same rules regarding border violations that are not for the purpose to fight Daimons and other common enemies. Point 9: By signing this Peace Treaty Heen will be bound by it and promises not to launch offensive movements against Mesh while the invasion lasts or after the end of the invasion while the treaty is in effect. Mesh in return is also willing to promises not to launch offensive movements against Heen while the treaty is in effect. Yours, Leani Marrion, Chancellor of Mesh | ||
Second Round
|
Second Round | ||
| 20 October 1007 | Thrydwulf | |
| Chancellor Leani,
In reply to your counteroffer, I first of all have to say that regardless of what some nobles might claim, Heen does not oppose a democracy or any system alike. If you read our constitution, Heen/The Constitution of Heen, you’ll see how few different our government systems really are. I think that you’ve been listening too much to certain impartial sources who cannot say anything good about Heen without damaging their own credibility. I think your assumption that this can all be solved with pointing out the differences between our constitutional monarchy and your democracy is based on ill rumours and biased opinions. I will try to make this clear from the beginning: This is not a negotiation about government types, this is about peace. Secondly, I must say that many Heenite councillors were appalled how Mesh put a red cross over almost every term, while a counteroffer for that term was in fact inexistent. We realize that you would not agree to every term, but we expected at least a counteroffer instead of a rather omnipresent and blunt “No, because…” To continue on the actual negotiations, Point 1: As I already said, Heen acknowledges Mesh’s policy and even more, we follow most of it ourselves. However, this is not a debate about government types, this is a debate to negotiate peace. First of all, Heen does respect second chances. In fact, a nobleman who planned to rebel against Heen was given a second chance, and today, he received a medal for his loyal and admirable service after he had been forgiven. You see, Heen knows that second chances are a humane thing to do and we give them. However one –and there are three howevers in fact- I must bring forth the fact that Tarajist ruined his second chance. I refer to Talk:Heen/Heenite Highlights/October '07/Mediations with Mesh and Heen/Heenite Highlights/October '07/Talks With Tarajist. According to Heenite law he would have been banned again already. The second however is that it clearly affects the relations with Heen and Mesh. Not even informally, where hatred between all Heenites and Tarajist still endures and will most likely continue to passively degrade the relations with Mesh, but also professionally, as you can see how we were treated in the general channel, one of the most professional channels I must say. His lack of tack and personal feelings prevent him and Heen from ever working together or simply sharing information with each other. This is a very significant impediment to our relations and cooperation.You must see how we cannot work with him, nor can we work with a Mesh with him in it. It is simply impossible as my two examples proved, read for yourself. However three, is that with Tarajist as general of Mesh, or even simply being in any form of power such as councillor, Heen will always fear a sudden change of mind in Mesh, or a surprise attack, or anything of similar sort. And as you could see from the deep hatred, this fear is founded. Just as you would not let an Inferi (Arcana) live in Vlaanderen, Heen cannot let a man such as Tarajist live in Mesh without taking the same actions towards Mesh as you are doing towards Vlaanderen. Therefore, Heen will not accept Mesh’s counteroffer on point 1, but we stay open to further negotiations if you insist. Point 2: Heen agrees to Mesh’s counteroffer regarding the Ambush in Naraka. As I said, we will not press this issue much since we lack proof, and trust your word on this matter. Point 3: As I said, our realms are much alike. I urge you to read the Constitution of Heen, article II. The few exceptions on this article are stated in the respective Amendments and are only natural too. But you must have misread our Term on this matter, as Heen never requested from Mesh to oppress these voices or even take actions against them. Heen just wants a list of their names. So that, if one of them comes to power, we know what we could expect from them. Concerning the anti-Mesh faction in Heen, we would gladly provide a similar list to Mesh. Point 4: We find ourselves in agreement on this Term concerning reporting spies when peace is established. It needs no further discussion. Point 5: Would you like to inform Danny not to mess around with these negotiations. I can show you hundreds of messages where he boasts about having people in Heen handing him messages and passing through information. So let us make this clear, before I’m force to actually send you the copies of all those messages, that Heen wants either one of the two following: Either Mesh gives us the list one way or another, or Danny admits that the feigned having a spy in Heen only to intimidate me on the ruler channel, and thus intentionally deteriorating the relationship between Mesh and Heen. As you see, there is no in between. You cannot at first do have a spy and then suddenly not have one, and neither can you look at faking to have a spy as something that improves the relationship between our realm. Those are two paradoxes. I hope I made this clear. Point 6: Then this Term is considered to be solved too as soon as Heen accepts the apologies. I do not have to remind you what we exactly require for Mesh to apologize for, I hope. Point 7: If I understood this correctly, Mesh agrees to Heen’s first addendum as stated in Point 7, refuses the addendum in Point 8 and suggests another addendum? I hope I am correct by presuming this. Concerning Point 7, nothing needs to be said anymore then. Point 8:
You misunderstood me concerning Point 8 I’m afraid. As you can read from,
Any infractions of this pact will be dealt with as following: Point 8(bis): Concerning the addendum that Mesh suggested, Heen agrees and is very willing to implement this. We should not let this become an iron curtain policy, and we should allow each other to help the other if they request or accept it. Point 9: By signing this Peace Treaty Heen will be bound by it and promises not to launch offensive movements against Mesh while the invasion lasts or after the end of the invasion while the treaty is in effect. Mesh in return is also willing to promises not to launch offensive movements against Heen while the treaty is in effect. Relations are improved to peace, however conform the Soil Non-Transgression pact. In other words, if both realms are not engaged in wars of mutual interest, then peace will be required. If both realms are in fact involved in wars of mutual interest, then neutrality is sufficient. Point 10: All Terms of Peace of Heen must be fulfilled by Mesh, and vice versa, before the end of the invasion, that is, as soon as the last non-human race has left Beluaterra. You can exclude the already agreed Points from next messages. Signed, Martana Curs Queen of Heen | ||
Mesh: Tarajist is a Personal Issue
|
Tarajist is a Personal Issue | ||
| 26 October 1007 | Thrydwulf | |
| Queen Martana,
Me and my Advisory Council feels that this is a personal problem between you and Tarajist. What we are trying to do here is resolving a personal problem on the governmental level. It is obviously not working very effectively. Here is my and my Advisory Council's proposal: you and Sir Tarajist work this out between one another (probably a Duel till Surrender could put an end to it!) and let the Government of Heen and Mesh work together. We CAN visibly work together, our negotiations worked out, our relationship (as I feel) got better. However, we will never be able to solve the problem between you and Tarajist...it is a personal feud that can only be solved by the people involved. Please consider this. Governments can not function effectively if have to meddle in personal issues. Heen and Mesh has greater things to worry about, such as the Invasion itself. No one can solve this problem better than You and Tarajist, no matter what the terms of negotiation would be. Leani Marrion Chancellor of Mesh | ||
Heen: Tarajist is a Governmental Issue
|
Tarajist is a Governmental Issue | ||
| 27 October 1007 | Thrydwulf | |
| Chancellor Leani,
You fail to see how real this problem is. While both I and Tarajist exercise governmental positions, our personal feud will always be a governmental factor. It is an idyll to think that they could be separated, because as you can see, your general is in a discussion with mine, again. It's just happening again. It's not doing good to our relations. And it can all be traced back to this problem. Can you still deny the veracity of this problem? Or do you finally agree that this is inevitably a factor on governmental level? And you also fail to see the severity of this problem. It's not just a personal feud between two people. It's a feud between Tarajist and me. Between Tarajist and Thrydwulf. Between Tarajist and Jadine. Between Tarajist and Medium. Between Tarajist and Fror. Between Tarajist and Wolfgang. Between Tarajist and Joan. Need I to continue the list? I believe that Mesh has been too ignorant about the severity of this problem. You and your council seem to wave it away with a flick of your hand, as if it is too small of an issue to bother. Why is Heen making such a big fuss about it, you ask? Because it is inevitably, undeniably a major problem! And I cannot solve it in the name of every noble in my realm, even if Tarajist and I somehow managed to find peace. He'd have to come to Heen and find peace with every single Heenite first. Only then this problem is finally over. You see, as long as Tarajist is the Minister of Defence in Mesh -as long as he's even just in Mesh as a simple noble- the personal feud he has with just about every noble in Heen will play on a governmental level. Whether you like it or not. Whether your council finds it too trivial or not. There is no use for acting as if this is only a futile problem. It's staring you right in the face and harming our relations further. What more proof do you need of how this affects our relations? An actual army besieging one of your cities? Will you then suddenly realize how serious we now were? I hope you and your councillors are smarter than that. Please forward this message to your council also. And it will be included in the Heenite Highlights, as I have few intent on continuing any negotiations off-record. My people want to know what's going on, and they deserve it. Signed, Martana Curs Queen of Heen | ||
Mesh's Second Counteroffer
|
Mesh's Second Counteroffer | ||
| 29 October 1007 | Thrydwulf | |
| 1: Sir Tarajist is fined for 150 gold. Neither Heen nor Mesh should further talk about any slanderous messages that occured in the past. Any future similar behavior from Sir Tarajist will carry very severe punishment.
If Heen sends any type of provoking messages (provocation level judged by Mesh's Council) they will be held liable and expected to carry out severe punishments. Both realms want to end this issue once and for all. 4: Mesh's government will send a formal apology to Heen's government for Sir Tarajist's and Sir Danny's performance that included inappropriate-in-their-position-type behavior. Heen will send a formal apology to Mesh's council for calling the entire realm of Mesh "low human beings". 8: Renewal of the Non-Transgressional treaty according to the agreed terms, such as: - the treaty will be suspended to fight common enemies in each other's realms - troop leaders that carry 1000 CS or larger unit altogether and trespasses over the border will be required a fine on the first offense, and more severe punishment if it occurs again Leani Marrion Chancellor of Mesh | ||
Heen's Third Offer
|
Heen's Third Offer | ||
| 30 October 1007 | Thrydwulf | |
| Chancellor Leani,
This is the formal reply of Heen concerning the counteroffer of Mesh made on Monday the 29th. Point 1: The Heenite council has decided, with the utmost majority of votes, that Heen will not accept the fine as sufficient a redemption for the actions and words of Tarajist. To explain this decision to Mesh, I am willing to elaborate. The Heenite councilors find that Mesh failed to take its responsibility for the actions and words of their own representatives. The words of both Danny as Tarajist are the words of entire Mesh, as long as Mesh allows them to represent them. Such is undeniable and indisputable. A new, uncalled for discussion on the general channel, with as sole intent to provoke Heen’s general, has only worsened the situation and supports our arguments. Therefore, Heen agrees to compromise to the following extent, lowering its claim from banishment: Minister of Defense Tarajist is either to step down himself, or the government of Mesh must strip him of his titles. The same goes for Danny, but as he no longer represents Mesh, this is no longer necessary in the eyes of Heen. Future conflicts will be punished on both sides, by a scale of severity agreed upon by both realms. Point 3: Heen does not yet consider this point closed. Our Term remains to be provided with a list of anti-Heen noblemen in Mesh. Point 4: Also, my councilors have decided that Heen will not apologize for calling Mesh “low human beings”. I will elaborate again, Heen believes that in the face of the several dozens paragraphs of insults, by the hand of Tarajist as well as Danny, that Heen cannot be blamed for one mere sentence. Heen’s councilors will not take what could be considered as 50-50 responsibility for a matter that can be best described as a 1-99 situation. Point 5: Neither is this point closed in the eyes of Heen. We still require a list of spies that Mesh equipped, or a confession that Danny actively tried to harm relations with Heen by intimidating us with claiming to have spies. Point 8: Is now concluded and considered closed. I’d like to add a Point 11: No matter the outcome of the negotiations, Heen and Mesh will sign peace during the invasion to cooperate for the survival of mankind. This could be done instantly. Signed, Martana Curs Queen of Heen | ||
Old News, better forgotten
{{CrazyNewsLeft |title = Stale old issue |date = 3 April 1008 |author = Chancellor Purple |article = Amidst a day-long negotiation to quell an outbreak of human-v.-human war in the northern nations: (I give up. I tried to code this the same as above, re-coded three times, ran out of time. i have to leave it to the big brains to make this right.) Letter from Martana Curs (datestamp)
(Personal message to Purple Recluse)
Sir Purple, I would like to urge Mesh to look into the negotiations with Heen again. The issue has been burried by the destruction of our lands, but it remains open.
I suggest you read up on (reference to this record) and provide us an answer quickly.
This matter should be resolved before the last non-human race leaves Beluaterra, as stated in one of my messages. Signed, Martana Curs Great Malika of Heen - - - -
Letter from Purple Recluse (Personal message to Martana) Why are you stirring up such old controversy? Are there not enough problems in this world? Can you find no reason to join in coordinated work to get rid of the Big Problem?
We are not in the same world that spawned this "offense". Forget about it already.
For Humanity, Purple Recluse Ruler of Mesh
